Freethought & Rationalism Archive

bluefugue · 08-07-2002, 03:47 PM

IIRC, Carl Sagan, in DHW, praised Scooby Doo for its skeptical mindset.

"dark angle" = Dark Angel I presume?

Oolon: As you no doubt know, Dawkins railed a bit against X-Files in "Unweaving the Rainbow." I thought that was going a bit too far. It's a good show.

Fact is, the supernatural *is* more entertaining than the mundane. Skepticism isn't particularly entertaining. It's more FUN to think that the Pyramids were built by aliens. It's more FUN to think that we live in a world of ghosts and gods and monsters. (Though I suppose if you stop and think about it, it's pretty remarkable to live in a world of ants and hurricanes and gluons and supernovae and Elizabeth Hurley...) Would the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark have been as effective if they had opened up the ark, found only sand inside, and said, "Oh well, it was all bollocks. Off to the museum with you!" Nope.

Arrowman · 08-07-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
Does anyone remember what came first, a few crop circles or the pranksters Dave & Dave, ...

According to this page:
<a href="http://www.youngskeptics.org/library/detail.asp?Num=80" target="_blank">http://www.youngskeptics.org/library/detail.asp?Num=80</a>
crop circles first appeared in Britain in the 1970s.
According to this page
<a href="http://www.skepdic.com/cropcirc.html" target="_blank">http://www.skepdic.com/cropcirc.html</a>
the "Dave&Dave" hoaxers confessed in 1991 to approximately 250 hoax circles "over many years".
According to this NY Daily News article:
<a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/story/6180p-5770c.html" target="_blank">http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/story/6180p-5770c.html</a>

Quote:

...two British pranksters began matting down grain stalks in the late '70s (they confessed in the early '90s).

So, either (a) The NY Daily News has added 2+2 and come up with 5, and "Dave&Dave" were copying an as yet identified earlier hoaxer, or (b) "Dave&Dave" started it all.

That doesn't answer your question, does it?

Still it's a start. I suppose we'll have to find reportage of the original "Dave&Dave" confession to find out what "over many years" actually means. My dim recollection is that they did not claim to be the first, but I'll see what I can find.

OK: More info: According to this article from ABC News:
<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/cropcircles_020802.html" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/cropcircles_020802.html</a>

Quote:

n fact, two hoaxers came forward in 1991. Doug Bower and Dave Chorley claimed that after a night of drinking in a pub, they began making circles in 1978 ...Bower and Chorley could not account for all of the formations, of course. The circles began appearing by the hundreds in the 1990s. Bower said other hoaxers began to imitate him in 1986.

So the evidence grows that Bower & Chorley were the originators.

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]

Marduk · 08-08-2002, 03:06 AM

The History Channel answered my questions last night, Dave lived in Australia in the 1960's at the time of many crop circle/UFO reports, they called them 'UFO Nests'. This is where he says to have gotten the idea.
However crop circles have been around for centuries, the simple circles that is, not the complex designs. In the 1600's they were called 'Pixy Circles'
The first in the modern age was in the 1970's in the USA, Wyoming I think they said.

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]

crocodile deathroll · 08-13-2002, 03:38 PM

Well I have just watched the article of crop circles on National Geographic and it confirmed what I suspected. It showed the just the simple act of trampling down with shoes (snow shoes may be even better) can produce that crop circle effect . It is not even a particularly brilliant magician's trick.

<a href="http://www.themaizemaze.com/" target="_blank"> It this then the work of Aliens?? </a>

They said "last year there was a cowboy, in the past we have had a dragon, pirate ship and a castle." (Perhaps the mother ship will be next)

Answerer · 08-13-2002, 05:48 PM

I prefer watching 'walking with beasts' than 'the signs'.

crocodile deathroll · 08-15-2002, 03:34 PM

Now what the **** are those aliens thinking out there.

"lets foget about the colin endoscope and divices to inspect the genitals of Earthlings. Lets instead bring the Wead eater, the lawn mower, a few bottles of weed killer some snow shoes and make pretty pictures in the crop fields of England. We think those gullible Earthlings will be most amazed about would we can do with maize. We may even employ some Earthling practical jockers like Doug and Dave"

croc

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]

08-08-2002, 03:06 AM	#33
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	The History Channel answered my questions last night, Dave lived in Australia in the 1960's at the time of many crop circle/UFO reports, they called them 'UFO Nests'. This is where he says to have gotten the idea. However crop circles have been around for centuries, the simple circles that is, not the complex designs. In the 1600's they were called 'Pixy Circles' The first in the modern age was in the 1970's in the USA, Wyoming I think they said. [ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

08-15-2002, 03:34 PM	#36
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	Now what the are those aliens thinking out there. "lets foget about the colin endoscope and divices to inspect the genitals of Earthlings. Lets instead bring the Wead eater, the lawn mower, a few bottles of weed killer some snow shoes and make pretty pictures in the crop fields of England. We think those gullible Earthlings will be most amazed about would we can do with maize. We may even employ some Earthling practical jockers like Doug and Dave" croc [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]</p>

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08-07-2002, 03:47 PM	#31
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	IIRC, Carl Sagan, in DHW, praised Scooby Doo for its skeptical mindset. "dark angle" = Dark Angel I presume? Oolon: As you no doubt know, Dawkins railed a bit against X-Files in "Unweaving the Rainbow." I thought that was going a bit too far. It's a good show. Fact is, the supernatural is more entertaining than the mundane. Skepticism isn't particularly entertaining. It's more FUN to think that the Pyramids were built by aliens. It's more FUN to think that we live in a world of ghosts and gods and monsters. (Though I suppose if you stop and think about it, it's pretty remarkable to live in a world of ants and hurricanes and gluons and supernovae and Elizabeth Hurley...) Would the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark have been as effective if they had opened up the ark, found only sand inside, and said, "Oh well, it was all bollocks. Off to the museum with you!" Nope.

08-13-2002, 03:38 PM	#34
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	Well I have just watched the article of crop circles on National Geographic and it confirmed what I suspected. It showed the just the simple act of trampling down with shoes (snow shoes may be even better) can produce that crop circle effect . It is not even a particularly brilliant magician's trick. <a href="http://www.themaizemaze.com/" target="_blank"> It this then the work of Aliens?? </a> They said "last year there was a cowboy, in the past we have had a dragon, pirate ship and a castle." (Perhaps the mother ship will be next)

08-13-2002, 05:48 PM	#35
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	I prefer watching 'walking with beasts' than 'the signs'.

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