Freethought & Rationalism Archive

echidna · 08-18-2003, 04:57 PM

Volker, I regret that you are unable or unwilling to answer my earlier questions in this thread :

a) What was the 30 day record for your graph around the Turkey quake ?
b) How did you select those angles for the Turkey quake ?
c) What is the full list of 45 angles for each event you claim ?
d) How can predicting earthquakes be considered statistically significant when there are millions each year ?
e) What magnitude earthquake is considered astrologically significant ?

Apparently I can now add another few to the list. When you first arrived, you claimed astrological links (unexplained, but no matter) to people�s personalities and life events. Later you expanded that to earthquakes.

f) Are you now claiming an astrological link to power blackouts ?
g) On what basis ?
h) If so much energy was diverted astrologically, where did it go ?
i) By this pattern you seem to be following, do you also intend to claim astrological links to all natural disasters, political conflicts, in general all news headline material ?

Volker, the further this goes the more irrational it becomes. The planets could stop in their tracks and reverse direction and there would continue to be natural disasters, human conflict, social turmoil.

j) Your �prediction� for August has expanded to become �unless there are no world events during August, astrology is correct�. Volker, does this strike you as just the slightest bit absurd ?

As for a letter of thanks from a believer in your astrology, I have no doubt that there is a significant placebo effect from believers in any of the thousands of forms of paranormal healing or psychoanalysis. As such it is a valid form of treatment (albeit entirely open to fraud and mis-use) AFAIC, but this doesn�t change the fact that without evidence (such as analysis to the questions above), it remains scientifically false and factually unsubstantiated.

Autonemesis · 08-18-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Astrology is a language of symbols; all astrologers in the world can make conversation on exact this symbols.

So is Tarot. All Tarot readers in the world can make conversation on exactly these symbols. It is no different from astrology, and has the same accuracy rate. The followers of either method of divination have scads of anecdotes about how wonderfully accurate each method is.

I know how to do a Tarot spread and a horoscope, and interpret both. Can you do Tarot? What about tea leaves? I don't know how to do tea leaves, but I bet I can pick it up in a few minutes.

Volker.Doormann · 08-19-2003, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Astrology is a language of symbols; all astrologers in the world can make conversation on exact this symbols.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So is Tarot.

I speak on astrology, and that astrologers can make conversation in this languge is
fact.. Who cares about them, who are ignorant about this and the word wide agreement. If you teach the world ignorance is more intelligent as cognition, it is your problem

Quote:

What about tea leaves? I don't know how to do tea leaves, but I bet I can pick it up in a few minutes.

What about houses ? I'm sure you cannot interpret this house. But if, you cannot give a proof, why you can interpret it. Right? Your descreditation of astrology is nothing as hypocrisy; you are not honest in speaking truth about what you are recognizing. You are biased.

Volker.Doormann · 08-19-2003, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by echidna
Volker, I regret that you are unable or unwilling to answer my earlier questions in this thread :

a) What was the 30 day record for your graph around the Turkey quake ?
b) How did you select those angles for the Turkey quake ?
c) What is the full list of 45 angles for each event you claim ?
d) How can predicting earthquakes be considered statistically significant when there are millions each year ?
e) What magnitude earthquake is considered astrologically significant ?

Echidna,
I will not give answers to your questions. Your understanding about significance is different to mine. Your understanding includes all quake events in year, while my understanding is, that it is significant, if a special geometric configuration of the planets that can be expessed in an maximum index value in a time window of 5 minutes coincide with one(two) major earthquake(s). The term major earthquake is well known in the field, but not to you; you include millions of earthqakes per year. I have no intension to clear all that up for you.

You post your belief:

Quote:

I have no doubt that there is a significant placebo effect from believers..

Who cares about your doubt? Who cares about your assertion, that a placebo effect, which should be significant - is ? Funny. A significant placebo effect is known, 'no doubt'. Is ' no doubt' an scientific argument? Have you a scientific knowledge about the effect of a placebo effect? Or is the effect an error in measurement? Who knows? As long as you cannot give a proof, that between the soul of a person and its psyche is no connection, don�t care about people, who are able to perceive that. Maybe you go swimming or something else. The world needs knowledge about relations and the sense of it, but not people, who haven�t knowledge to show this in big. Do you have a character? Or it is a placebo effect? If you have lost all your friends, crying lonesome on your pillow, seems all to be a placebo effect. Searching for the truth, seems all a placebo effect, to be aware about the own self, imperfect, is a placebo as well. Significant this placebo effect.

Truth begins with the consciousness knowing �I am�. If that is not realized, no further knowledge can be made. You cannot give proofs of truth; it is an individual cognition process. Knowledge and cognition is the reference, if that is missed, peoples belief, disbelief or nonbelief has no worth. No one other than the own inner self can recognize truth; there is no web page where truth can be downloaded. You must be able to learn to recognize truth; no one other can do this for you. Then you learn to stand for truth. Maybe first it is a little truth, but a truth, you stand for. This knowledge of a little truth has a worth, a value, which is real. All other brain gymnastic is useles and unreal. Think obout or not.

Volker

Coragyps · 08-25-2003, 02:46 PM

Apologies if this is already linked in this thread:
Another debunking.

Secular Pinoy · 08-25-2003, 06:12 PM

Dang, you beat me to it, Coragyps. If II wasn't hard to access some time back, I would've posted a similar story: Astrologers fail to predict proof they are wrong. I think it's more than conclusive, astrology is bunk, and debunked.

Kat_Somm_Faen · 08-25-2003, 06:17 PM

What the hell! Do Washington Times and The Telegraph freaking cope the articles? They start the freaking same!

Gosh darn it did they just copy and paste?

Mullibok · 08-25-2003, 06:19 PM

Well since the Washington Times credits the London Daily Telegraph at the beginning of their article...you do the rest.

Volker.Doormann · 08-25-2003, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coragyps
Apologies if this is already ....

Apology is a philosophical slang used to the phantoms created again and again by Christinanity to try to explain, why a virgin can be a mother, etc. You do write in a scientific forum, and have ignored arguments and facts given in this thread:

Volker.Doormann: "Around the date of 2003.08.27 there are some geometric planetary geocentric configurations relating to energeticful crash's and earthquakes. " - "It is true, that the stress starts in [/B]mid of August[/B], but it seems, that this is enhanced +- 2 days to the 'due date"

Lobstrosity: "If that's not what you're doing, please tell us why you haven't given us the exact day and time of this upcoming disaster (if it was possible back in 2001, it's possible now). .. "

Volker.Doormann: "It is useless, because there is no earth location to say (time UTC only), and because an quake event seems not compelling in any case. Forget predictions, and forget this relations, if you do not see any significance. I do claim nothing, but the shown results.

Relax on this month and perceive news then."

2003.08.14
EQ Greece M6.3
Power outage NW USA/Canada "Within three minutes, starting at 4:10 p.m. Thursday, 21 power plants in the United States shut down, according to Genscape, which monitors power transmissions."
2003.08.15
2003.08.16
Oil pipeline sabotaged in northern Iraq insurgents twice bombed the pipeline pumping oil from northern Iraq to Turkey, only two days after it was reopened for the first time since the war.
2003.08.17
Water pipes sabotaged in Baghdad.
2003.08.18
2003.08.19
U.N. headquarters in Baghdad hit by truck bomb bombing of the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad
2003.08.20
A suicide bomber has wrecked a bus in Jerusalem, killing up to 20 people and injuring about 80 others.
2003.08.21
EQ Mw7.2 New Zealand 21.8.2003 12:12:00 UT
(biggest in New Zealand history since the 1962)
ecl. long. ecl. lat.
Sun 28 le 2' 7.6474 0� 0' 0.0124
Moon 14 ge 6'51.9681 1�40'25.4451
Mercury 24 vi 9'56.8956 -3� 1' 5.1157
Venus 28 le 47'36.2144 1�20'59.1688
Mars 6 pi 54'46.0540 -6�42'15.0124
Jupiter 28 le 42'58.7141 0�49' 9.9124
Saturn 9 cn 37' 2.2701 -0�45' 0.9686
Uranus 0 pi 57'21.0015 -0�47'30.6635
Neptune 11 aq 20' 6.0327 -0� 0' 7.0561
Pluto 17 sa 15' 2.3490 9�12'16.7249
Venus/Jupiter 28.79333928� le - 28.71730947� le = 0� - 0.077� (!)
2003.08.22
Smoke rose from a crater littered with twisted metal at Brazil's space center the day after a rocket explosion killed 21 people in the country's latest attempt to launch Latin America's first satellite.
2003.08.23
2003.08.24
2003.08.25
[/B]Guatemala EQ 6.0 06:28:31 UT geo. lat. : 14N38'00" geo. long.: 90W31'00" [/B]
ecl. long. ecl. lat.
Sun 1 vi 39'40.1953 0� 0' 0.3312
Moon 0 le 54'26.7110 4�36'14.0319
Mercury 25 vi 49'25.8198 -3�37'17.4074
Venus 3 vi 27' 6.3347 1�23'13.7845
Mars 5 pi 56'49.7943 -6�40'50.8951
Jupiter 29 le 32'13.1042 0�49'23.9002
Saturn 9 cn 59'21.2163 -0�44'54.8050
Uranus 0 pi 48'20.9023 -0�47'31.1839
Neptune 11 aq 14'21.8620 -0� 0' 9.6194
Pluto 17 sa 14'21.1569 9�10'48.7304

At least 46 people have been killed and more than 100 injured in a pair of explosions that shook India's financial capital Mumbai, according to hospital officials.

Eight firefighters die in Oregon van crash, explosion

... to be continued

Some math, that can be done in each past and present, can calculate planetary angular positions as done above from astronomical algorithms. I have done this calcs in the beginning of August and have given hints to the significant aspects of Mars/Uranus in opposition to the conjunctions of Sun/Venus/Jupiter and additional Moon today and tomorrow; on the 25nd of August (EQ) Moon has had some 30� angular distances the conjunctions (0�) of SU/JU/VE and a quincix aspect (150�) to the MA/UR conjunction.

All this is no apologetic, but facts and evidences to that claims I have done about the algorithm and astrological signs of time as experience on the nature of this.

One can ignore this, as skeptics have shown nothing more than this ever, or one can acknowledge that the easy understandable scientific claims are fulfilled by events in time and data. I think this is a good example to prove the scientific impotence of skepticism; there is absolutely no ability, qualification and no perception present to qualify such plot in a scientific adequate manner. Science is to understand nature in hole, not to reject nature because of a comfortable seat in knowing the relations in QM and GR.

Volker

Volker.Doormann · 08-25-2003, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Researchers looked at more than 100 different characteristics, including occupation, anxiety levels, marital status, aggressiveness, sociability, IQ levels and ability in art, sport, mathematics and reading - all of which astrologers claim can be gauged from birth charts.

The scientists failed to find any evidence of similarities between the "time twins", however.

What does this proof?

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08-18-2003, 04:57 PM	#231
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Volker, I regret that you are unable or unwilling to answer my earlier questions in this thread : a) What was the 30 day record for your graph around the Turkey quake ? b) How did you select those angles for the Turkey quake ? c) What is the full list of 45 angles for each event you claim ? d) How can predicting earthquakes be considered statistically significant when there are millions each year ? e) What magnitude earthquake is considered astrologically significant ? Apparently I can now add another few to the list. When you first arrived, you claimed astrological links (unexplained, but no matter) to people�s personalities and life events. Later you expanded that to earthquakes. f) Are you now claiming an astrological link to power blackouts ? g) On what basis ? h) If so much energy was diverted astrologically, where did it go ? i) By this pattern you seem to be following, do you also intend to claim astrological links to all natural disasters, political conflicts, in general all news headline material ? Volker, the further this goes the more irrational it becomes. The planets could stop in their tracks and reverse direction and there would continue to be natural disasters, human conflict, social turmoil. j) Your �prediction� for August has expanded to become �unless there are no world events during August, astrology is correct�. Volker, does this strike you as just the slightest bit absurd ? As for a letter of thanks from a believer in your astrology, I have no doubt that there is a significant placebo effect from believers in any of the thousands of forms of paranormal healing or psychoanalysis. As such it is a valid form of treatment (albeit entirely open to fraud and mis-use) AFAIC, but this doesn�t change the fact that without evidence (such as analysis to the questions above), it remains scientifically false and factually unsubstantiated.

08-25-2003, 02:46 PM	#235
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Apologies if this is already linked in this thread: Another debunking.

08-25-2003, 06:12 PM	#236
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Dang, you beat me to it, Coragyps. If II wasn't hard to access some time back, I would've posted a similar story: Astrologers fail to predict proof they are wrong. I think it's more than conclusive, astrology is bunk, and debunked.

08-25-2003, 06:17 PM	#237
Kat_Somm_Faen Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 3,316	What the hell! Do Washington Times and The Telegraph freaking cope the articles? They start the freaking same! Gosh darn it did they just copy and paste?

08-25-2003, 06:19 PM	#238
Mullibok Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 814	Well since the Washington Times credits the London Daily Telegraph at the beginning of their article...you do the rest.

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