Bialar Crais

Hmm...Have these people heard about chromosome fusing? And the old human chromsome 2 vs. chimp chromosome 2p+2q thingy? I mean, how frelling ignorant can you be and still be classified as homo sapiens sapiens?

Duvenoy

Very frelling (I like that word) ignorant. Even I, a not-well-educated layman, have a grasp of it, albeit a bit teneous.

However, we must realize that someone who knows nothing of chromsomes might be pretty damned smart in other subjects.

Or not. I think that the truly ignorant are those who spout rubbish about something, anything, when they know nothing of the subject.

"Ya can't learn if yer mouth is moving."

doov

Albion

Good grief. Wonder if Scigirl's seen this watertight refutation of her challenge to creationists. sigh....

B. H. Manners

All this stuff about aliens creating man is just Von Danikkenism resurging.

Supergirl

Even if aliens came and killed the dino's and started breeding with apes. What does it matter?

The question would still remain - were did the friggin aliens come from then? Were they created or were they interbred with apes on their home planet? Or did they evolve from a one cel creature?

Arbogast

Here is what I have never understood..

Now, I know evolution contradicts a Literal Biblical Creation story.

But I don't see why Evolution and Creation are a definite either/or proposition?


I also think that there is little evidence pro or con on the influence of extraterrestrials on earths history. The UFO/Roswell/Danikan type crowd have one effect on the better educated crowd that is often overlooked. They cause the better educated crowd to close their minds to certain possabilites.

The claims the UFO crowd make are ABSURD. They cloud the vision of people to the possability that there are alien civilizations all around us, that our solar system is well known in the past and present to alien civilizations, and that aliens have possible interacted on some level with earths history (in subtle ways).

I am not claiming this is the case, just that we really don't even know much about the contents of our own solar system. ( We would not know as basic a fact as a small alien archeological site in plain site on the moon! Say a simple outpost to relay the data on a series of scientific satellites that have monitored earth for tens of millions of years! I dont say there is such a thing, just we would have no clue.)

I think it is important not to place man at the center of the local universe absolutely when we are so blind. It is important not to let a reaction to the absurdities of the UFO crowd blind us to possabilities to open ended questions.

Duvenoy

Hi Arbogast. Welcome to II.

There's only one word that sums up the whole question(s): Evidence. Empirical evidence that can be studied and reviewed.

Thus far, neither the Creationists nor the UFO wishful-dreamers have come up with any of it. The ToE, on the other hand, is buried in evidence, every bit of it peer reviewed to the point wearing it to a rag. Even as I write, an ancient skull (Toumi, 5 to 7 myo) is under a review that threatens to turn bloody. Is it a hominid or is it an ape? Hmmm?

As for UFOs, hell, that's nothing but an Unidentified, Flying Oject. It means that someone saw something that he couldn't ID. Even I have seen one, but I'll bet anything I can get my hands on that it wasn't ET, or Yoda, or anything of the sort.

Evidence, my friend. Evidence is all. Without it, all you have is a sea-story.

Again, Welcome! Hope you enjoy!

doov

Arbogast

Perhaps I am being taken the wrong way. Obviously, evolution is the primary force in the life story of earth. Heck, having a brother who makes a living in genetic science, I say we are reaching a point where arguing against evolution is like arguing against the existence of the internal combustion engine with a mechanic.

And as for creation, I merely suggest that the world is created as an evolving world, maybe. But that creation by God and evolution are not necessarily contradictory. The Bible is a very profound religious text, it is pretty obvious if you read the Bible accurate science was not an interest of the authors. Neither were its authors obsessed with completely accurate history. I dont really see the Biblical Creation taken literally as anything serious. I believe in the Genesis Creation Story in this sense, it is a profound story.

As for the existence of aliens being involved in earths history, I am not even trying to give a fish story. One would expect there to be no evidence at this point in our technological development, unless aliens desired to communicate with us.

My proposition is that whether or not aliens are/were visiting/interacting with the earth is really not a question we are in a position to answer pro or con. It is unlikely we would know.

What I propose is that it is not outrageous to wonder if it happens/happened. I propose that the idea is not given enough consideration, and that the UFO type crowd makes so many absurd claims, that it prejudices people against what is not a completely ridiculous idea.

I merely point out the idea of an alien base on the moon, not because I think there is one, but merely to point out we would likely be ignorant of such a basic fact if it did exist.

Let me point out I have never been exposed to an alien/UFO/etc story that made any sense to me.

One of the first things I would expect about a true UFO story, there would be elements to it so strange that a human mind couldnt have made it up. Sort of like how history is stranger than fiction, times 1000.

Advocatus Diaboli

The first thing that made me doubt human evolution(when I was a teenager) was the difference in chromosome numbers. Instead of just shouting: "Evolution is false!", I read some books. Now I know more about biology than I could have ever hoped, and I shake my head when I read creationist "research".