Thor Q. Mada

St.Robert,

Since by definition, I don't believe in afterlife, why would I be willing to give-up all there is for an esoteric delusion??
On the other hand would you be willing to fly a plane in a building because of your beliefs??

Viti

My beliefs...I was born, I am alive now, I will die someday. I am me, and I am here now. I wasn't always here, I won't always be here. These are the facts and I seem to be the only constant...everything else is questionable.

St. Robert

All the great men and women in human history like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr, Mother Theresa, etc. were willing to sacrifice everything, even their own lives, for what they believed.

I guess I'm trying to assess your level of commitment to atheism. How invested are you in believing that there is no God? What would you be willing to sacrifice for your faith in doubt?

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

Jack the Bodiless

...Really? I don't recall reading that Gandhi's assassin, or Martin Luther King's assassin, gave their victims the choice.

Furthermore, Christians don't believe that they ARE sacrificing everything. Rather than asking a Christian if they are willing to die for their beliefs, a more pertinent question is "will you accept eternity in Hell for your beliefs?"

You are asking atheists if they will make a sacrifice that NO Christian has ever knowingly made.

Vorkosigan

All the great men and women in human history like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr, Mother Theresa, etc. were willing to sacrifice everything, even their own lives, for what they believed.

Mother Teresa is hardly great, and King and Gandhi were not given a choice. King and Gandhi chose to work in the face of risk, not certainty of death. Mother Teresa was threatened only by the Indian doctors trying to get her shut down for killing so many people who otherwise might have lived.

I guess I'm trying to assess your level of commitment to atheism. How invested are you in believing that there is no God? What would you be willing to sacrifice for your faith in doubt?

As another poster said, what's at stake? It is better to live humbly for a cause than die nobly for it. The latter is usually a waste.

Vorkosigan

Jayhawker Soule

What possible relevancy is there in this?

not a theist

No, they actually died for what they were committed to rather than what they believed in. Some beliefs in some people lead to an existential committment. Not all beliefs do this. I also would not be willing to die for the belief that I am wearing green pants. And yet I do believe this. I have a plethora of beliefs that I would not be willing to die for yet which I hold to be true. Most people do.
In that case, I have very little existential committment to atheism. It's not like a religion to me. My talking about it is more like a hobby.
Not particularly. A sufficiently strong case would convince me otherwise.
I have no faith.
I also don't believe in alien abductions.
Would you consider my lack of belief in these to be "faith"?
I believe that I am wearing green pants.
Is this faith?
I would not be willing to sacrifice much of anything for either of the above beliefs, and yet I very much believe them.
How much one is willing to sacrifice is not a very good guage on whether one really believes something.
Would you be willing to make huge sacrifices for common beliefs of yours (e.g. the color of you shirt)?

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: not a theist ]</p>