Aerion

An interesting article:

Feather

Can't say as I disagree with the author's assessments. France has always come off, to me at least, as a Great Pretender. They want the respect and dignity of being a World Power without any of the responsibility that comes with it, it seems.

Shai Hulud

What responsibility?

Shai-Hulud

Amen-Moses

I think they mean ir-responsiblility. It is easy to drop the odd letter or two when typing fast.

Amen-Moses

August Spies

France is cooler than the U.S. I think people are just jealous of france.

France (along with germany) has all of the important modern philosophers. Nothing in europe compares to the french revolutions importance. France was able to conquer europe like no other. France was the center of european culture for a long time. France has the best authors, the best artists.

Yet people, as this article points out, try hard to demonize the french? why is this? France is not the most anti-american country in europe (Greece and Italy have bigger protests and countries like Germany are at least comparable with frances "anti-americanism").

What responsibilities does France "ignore" that other european countries, say Germany or Italy, takes up? France is our second biggest ally in things after England.

It seems clear to me that we are just mad that France won't play along this time when it always has before.

This was just stupid (on Rumsfeld's part). France and Germany are the most powerful countries on the continent. They dominate and run the E.U. There is no indication that this will change. Yes individual european countries have lost their power from Colonial days, but it is not as if England and France lost it to Latvia and Austria. Come on now.

August Spies

When I was in Munich I stayed with a family friend who is living in germany and works with a lot of high level buisnessmen. We were discussing the germans attitudes towards the US and I think what he said made sense (and probably applys to France).

After 9-11 Germans would have liked Bush to have his allies, like France and Germany and England, come over to washington and have a conference. Work together and talk about these things. Instead Bush wanted to be a cowboy and do everything by himself. Now this makes some since during 9-11, but im sure this feeling is doubled by our attitudes towards Iraq, which really should be an international effort.

Europeans want to be working together with America. They want this to be an equal discussion ground. Americans, especially Bush, give off the attitude that we dont' give a damn what Europe thinks.

We have said many times that we will do what we want regardless of the rest of the world of the UN. We attack any country that doesn't join us. Basically the U.S. attitude is our allies are disposable, they can join us if they want but only so they look good not cause we want it.

Krieger

Well, you have to bomb third world nations, support authoritarian dictatorships to stop democratic uprisings, monopolize resources - just those kinds of things.

sullster

The article makes some good points. The most interesting is the one about a possible French veto in the UN Security Council being followed by a US run war in Iraq. This would show that France is not powerful enough to stop the US and thus this vote would be seen negatively. Thus France would not be voting from principle as much as from a desire to be the bigger power. French posturing, no principle.

France was a great European and world power for centuries but after being defeated and occupied by Germany during WW2, France is just another stop on the tour bus. They are a gigantic has-been power and only their nervy arrogance keeps them in the news.

I love the French Enlightenment. Voltaire and Diderot, along with other philosophes and their anti-religion were fabulous.

I part ways with the French after the Terror of their bloody Revolution which started the whole revolution idea going. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot owe a debt to the French Revolution. We paid big for that French disaster.

I don't like 20th century French philosophers. Foucault and all his de-constructionists have caused enormous damage. The Existentialists made some points but were entirely too gloomy.

I don't care that they don't like the US. I wish that they and their German buddies would just go away.

kwigibo

I don't know, they're a nuclear power, their military is as advanced as any non-superpower (if not as prolific), and their commercial space programs are much more effective than the USA's, i'd say they still have some warranted presence on the world stage.

August Spies

sullster,

haha, well whatever. You can dislike french philosophy since the enlightement, doesn't change the fact that almost all of the important stuff comes from Germany and France in that department.

But, seeing as you list VOLTAIRE as a philosopher im guessing you are not too concerned with that.

Foucault is far cooler than you.

Now as to your claim that France is not important. Oh bullshit. France, as kwig notes, is a nuclear power. It has a advanced military. It has a large powerful economy. It has enourmous pull in the E.U. (it and germany basically run it). It has a seat on the security council at the U.N.

Basically France, Germany and England are the only really powerful european nations. Sure, they are not as powerful as the U.S. or China. But they are the heads of Europe and far more of a power than most countries in the world.

these statements do not follow, nor do you back your claim up.

yeah that french disastor that is the birth place of modern thought, the birthplace of most western democracys and capitalism that you adore. Sure America was a couple years earlier but not near as important on the global scene as France.