triplew00t

As a follow-up to my question on Taoism, I was recommended to Zen Buddhism. I, however, do not believe in reincarnation. Any resident Zen Buddhists who think that death is the final end to our existance?

Nero

andy_d

Why does it really matter? Whether there is another life after death or not, what difference does it make to your life you are living now?

lugotorix

Well, I'm a Chan (Chinese Zen) Buddhist that is agnostic about it. For me this is the only position I can hold; to say either it's not possible or that it definitely happens would require proof that I don't have. There is a book by Stephen Batchelor, Buddhism without Beliefs, that deals with this subject in more depth. It presents a strongly agnostic form of Buddhism (which really pissed off a few traditionalists when it was published). According to the Pali scriptures, the Buddha himself said, in the Kalama Sutta, that it is possible to follow his teaching without believing in rebirth.

In the end, though, I have to agree with andy_d. It really doesn't matter. What does matter is the life you're living now.

lugotorix

andy_d

Me too.

Not much point in speculating about things you have no experience of. Even less point asserting that such speculation is fact.

tribalbeeyatch

Ooh...me...me. I feel a little bit uncomfortable labeling myself as a Zen Buddhist yet given that I've only read a half dozen books on the subject and have never received any face-to-face 'instruction', but nothing that I've come across leads me to believe that reincarnation exists as any sort of Zen 'doctrine'. On the contrary, a dogma like reincarnation would likely interfere with one's Zen practice (or at least it would mine) because it would serve as a sort of filter through which day-to-day experiences are interpreted -- the very thing that Zen eschews.

lugotorix

You might be interested in an essay on this subject at the Zen Buddhist Order of Hsu-Yun website, titled Life after death and other inconveniences by Ming Zhen Shakya. I don't always agree with the essays on the site, but they're usually thought-provoking.


lugotorix

Magic Primate

Zen is not so much about belief as about bringing the present to life by being present in it.

I've specifically asked Master Gudo Nishijima this question and he for one, believes that consciousness ceases with death.

That's his personal view and probably mine too.

triplew00t

Primate,

You have talked to Master Gudo Nishijima? I would be quite interested in hearing more about that, as I have read of him before. If you have AIM or yahoo, my sns are on my profile. Or just post here, please.

Everyone,

Any links or other info on Taoist teaching or Zen sects or Masters that do not believe in reincarnation would be much appreciated.

Nero

Magic Primate

One of his students gave me his details and an introduction and we ended up having quite a long conversation. I don't know him well enough to introduce you, but his email address is on his web site and he is a very helpful man.

Gudo Nishijima

I suggest you use the email address from the site and respectfully ask for his advice ('Nishijima-sensei' is the accepted way to address him I'm told). There is no need to mention how you found the address on the site.

For anyone reading this - please use your own discretion before contacting him in this way.

Incidentally, one of his students (Brad Warner) runs my favourite Zen Website, although it does upset a lot of Buddhists apparently.

Doubtboy

Magic Primate

triplew00t

It's through the Doubtboy website that I first heard of Nishijma. Thanks for the information, I might just contact him.

A Much Appreciative Nero