ybnormal

Originally posted by Seraphim:
In the end, if you do commit suicide, you will forever remember as a weakling and someone full of problems yet have no courage to deal with it.

This "what-will-others-think" concept of life repeats itself thru most of your comments here.

Do you really think that this is some enormous reason to live? Sorry, but you must be a second-hander... you almost exclusively live your life for others, thus you live your life thru others... I suggest that this type of thinking by the majority causes people to want to off themselves in the first place. I've seen this talk around here a lot lately, mostly by more folks who ain't got a clue.

Who do you folks think you are, telling me that my body and my life is not my own? That, my body, my life, is not mine, to do with as I damn well please?

This is the closest I can get to understanding what a woman feels when she's called a murderer if she has an abortion. It is HER body. Whenever I get tired of you folks telling me how I should live my life and I finally make the courageous and conscious decision to get permanently away from you, will I too be a murderer?

I don't live for others. I live for MYSELF. I am no second-hander.

You are the only weakling here... you care more about what others think of your life than you care for your life. And that's sick.

How can your thinking be more convoluted? I mean, really... Atheists of all people, ending their own lives have no courage to deal with their own problems???

Do you seriously want to repeat that?


ONLY cowards needs to find reason to pop themselves...

Horse hockey!

For some, it's simply a well-reasoned, perfectly rational option, that one can take, if and whenever it becomes the best available option. One can own and enjoy this option, and even exercise this option without the situation ever approaching this "weakness" BS that you're going on about. Having an additional, rational option available, which weak folks are unable to even consider, can offer significant peace of mind to those of us who enjoy owning that ultimate opt out option. I can just as easily call you a "coward" for not having the courage to even consider suicide under some possible circumstances.

For example, I personally demand a simple, yet certain quality of life for myself... it has nothing to do with wealth... it has everything to do with having the absolute freedom to be in complete control of my own life at all times. I have always known that if I were to ever get myself into a situation where I lost that total control, my quality of life would have been reduced to something less than what I would consider "life". Say, being wheelchair bound, or having a terminal illness, or being in prison, or anything else where I would need other people for my survival. IOW, by that point, I would already feel dead, yet still have to put up with life's bullshit. At least by exercising MY personal choice, I WILL stay in complete control, thus preserving my quality-of-life requirement throughout my existence.

My only problem with the issue of suicide is that too many of you folks perceive it as always coming from a condition of personal weakness... I see it as a condition of personal strength. Within my reasoning, I have every right and reason to view suicide as a matter of personal integrity and courage, in that I demand a certain quality of life for MYSELF, or I don't want life at all. And that is none of your business. Get yourself a real, first-hand life!

Our biggest problem with suicide, as with death in general, is our own selfishness, as it should be when we love someone. But your claim, that a man demanding complete control of his own existence is somehow a weak coward, must stem from some personal fear of yours that I can't possibly fathom.

Peace!

The Naked Mage

Don't waste your breath, ybnormal. Seraphim's acting on too many asinine preconceived notions to listen to anyone's opinion but his own.

Seraphim

This "what-will-others-think" concept of life repeats itself thru most of your comments here.

Do you really think that this is some enormous reason to live? Sorry, but you must be a second-hander... you almost exclusively live your life for others, thus you live your life thru others... I suggest that this type of thinking by the majority causes people to want to off themselves in the first place. I've seen this talk around here a lot lately, mostly by more folks who ain't got a clue.

Who do you folks think you are, telling me that my body and my life is not my own? That, my body, my life, is not mine, to do with as I damn well please?

This is the closest I can get to understanding what a woman feels when she's called a murderer if she has an abortion. It is HER body. Whenever I get tired of you folks telling me how I should live my life and I finally make the courageous and conscious decision to get permanently away from you, will I too be a murderer?

I don't live for others. I live for MYSELF. I am no second-hander.

My reply : Good, now why don't you go and tell the person who made this thread and whoever else who made such thread in the future (asking whether suicide is an option or not) that NO ONE gives a damn whether they are pop themselves or not.

Hmph ... no one here for you if you are not there for yourself, no one gives a damn if you don't give a damn about yourself. Why should I care about you when I have better things to do with my time? Why should I care what you do with your body?
Don't think just because I held the name "Seraphim", I'm an angel who prays for you, IF I'm an angel, then I'm angel of Death.

My posting is for THOSE who do care about themselves and their loved one, to show that there are better alternative than from spraying their brain all over the wall.

How can your thinking be more convoluted? I mean, really... Atheists of all people, ending their own lives have no courage to deal with their own problems???

Do you seriously want to repeat that?

My reply : I said anyone (not only Atheists, also some theists who does suicidal attacks) who takes their own lives IS a coward who has no guts to face life.

And for your benefit, I will repeat it - "You're a coward to take your own life."

Having an additional, rational option available, which weak folks are unable to even consider, can offer significant peace of mind to those of us who enjoy owning that ultimate opt out option. I can just as easily call you a "coward" for not having the courage to even consider suicide under some possible circumstances.

My reply : rational option? Suicide? hmph .... I will leave to the readers whether killing yourself IS rational or not.

Dying don't need courage Pal, living does. To die, all you have to do is put a gun to your head, don't bother about anything and pull the trigger.

To live, you must walk out of your house, face people who will look you down, or care for you or simply treats you indifference, face situations which seems to be more than what you are capable of handling and make decision which sometimes as if to hold others in your care. THAT takes courage. You should try it sometimes ... living I mean ... instead of hiding behind your weakness and considering death all the time.

For example, I personally demand a simple, yet certain quality of life for myself... it has nothing to do with wealth... it has everything to do with having the absolute freedom to be in complete control of my own life at all times. I have always known that if I were to ever get myself into a situation where I lost that total control, my quality of life would have been reduced to something less than what I would consider "life". Say, being wheelchair bound, or having a terminal illness, or being in prison, or anything else where I would need other people for my survival. IOW, by that point, I would already feel dead, yet still have to put up with life's bullshit. At least by exercising MY personal choice, I WILL stay in complete control, thus preserving my quality-of-life requirement throughout my existence.

My reply : HAHAHAHAHA ... forgive me for laughing ... but someone should teach you about the word "Simple" because what you described (total freedom in complete control) is ANYTHING but SIMPLE.

Here's a tip about Total Freedom in complete control ... it doesn't exist and seeking it is a waste of time.
In order to have Total control, you must have total control of other people's actions and thoughts, you must have total control of everything in this world - from weather to small things like ants since each will make an effect on you.
Sorry to tell you this, but you're not God.

My only problem with the issue of suicide is that too many of you folks perceive it as always coming from a condition of personal weakness... I see it as a condition of personal strength. Within my reasoning, I have every right and reason to view suicide as a matter of personal integrity and courage, in that I demand a certain quality of life for MYSELF, or I don't want life at all. And that is none of your business. Get yourself a real, first-hand life!

My reply : Fine ... your opinion.

Our biggest problem with suicide, as with death in general, is our own selfishness, as it should be when we love someone. But your claim, that a man demanding complete control of his own existence is somehow a weak coward, must stem from some personal fear of yours that I can't possibly fathom.

My reply : Correction ... a person who DEMANDS complete control of his existence is not a coward, he is a fool. His existence is linked to other existence - his family, friends, etc. You cannot even have better control of yourself, HOW are you going to control others?

Peace!

My question : Are you really in peace with yourself?

Jackalope

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ybnormal

For example, I personally demand a simple, yet certain quality of life for myself... it has nothing to do with wealth... it has everything to do with having the absolute freedom to be in complete control of my own life at all times. I have always known that if I were to ever get myself into a situation where I lost that total control, my quality of life would have been reduced to something less than what I would consider "life". Say, being wheelchair bound, or having a terminal illness, or being in prison, or anything else where I would need other people for my survival. IOW, by that point, I would already feel dead, yet still have to put up with life's bullshit. At least by exercising MY personal choice, I WILL stay in complete control, thus preserving my quality-of-life requirement throughout my existence.


You might be suprised how much your perspective changes when you do have to depend on other people to survive. In my youthful arrogance, I once determined that I would kill myself if I ever became too disabled. Nearly 15 years later, I now am that disabled from rheumatoid arthritis. Suprisingly, I have no urge to kill myself, though I find having to depend on others a frustrating thing many times. On the other hand, I have good pain control at this point. So while I may be disabled, I'm not raving from pain, either.

There was one point in my life where the pain was bad enough that I truly wished to die. Or rather, I saw it as possibly the only way to escape the pain. I didn't really want to die, I just wanted the pain to stop. I was terrified that I might spend decades in pain. The prospect of a long life seemed to me to be a curse. Luckily, I got a better set of doctors soon afterwards.

But I've found one can manage to live, even if one is disabled. It requires one to swallow a certain amount of pride. Or even arrogance, in my case. I grieve over the parts of my life that are now closed off from the realm of possibilities, but I still find there is enough meaning and joy in life to keep on.

I reserve the option of checking out permanently, though. One day, I may indeed hit the limit of what I'm willing to endure. Of what I'm capable of enduring. I've suprised myself a great deal over the years. My younger self would have never envisioned living and enjoying life in my current state.

But no one should have to suffer life past the point of their endurance.

Magus55

Depression is the result of the fall of humanity. Its a consequence of disobeying God ( no he doesn't necessarily make you depressed, its just a natural result of living in sin).

Most christians believe if you are saved and have complete faith in Jesus, but suffer such depression that you commit suicide, that you will still end up in Heaven. Jesus payed the price for all sins, past, present, future. Suicide is a sin like any other. All though there is no mention of going to heaven after suicide in the Bible so its not 100% certain.

ybnormal

Yes, Jackalope, anything is possible... and of course it is a matter of personal perspective... no, I am not suffering from anything and I don't really know what this depression thing is. I can only offer that I know myself as well as anyone I've ever known, better than most, and at my age, major changes in my basic makeup are not probable.

However, you can't even imagine how much I admire folks like yourself. If you care to think about it a bit, you may find reason to understand that honest statement, certainly in relation to my other comments. IOW, I may be better positioned than most people to appreciate your ability to do it your way. It just ain't for me personally. Which of course goes to the heart of why I responded to Seraphim, in that it ain't none of his or anyone else's business how you and I choose to deal with our own damn lives, or our deaths for that matter.

I just get tired of these xian robots, and others too, who don't have a clue, who repeat these old "depression" myths while denigrating strangers with their repetitious hate speak while claiming to be helping them. I'm glad this Magus decided to make that entire point for me...these folks don't give a shit about people... they just hate to admit that their silly system failed them... that they lost someone to target for conversion... that some of us have the gall to play life/death games with their belief system. A belief system in which I REFUSE to be included, try as they do.

This is why I continue to state that these folks are the weaklings... they live in fear of some mind fantasy they've had implanted, and then they live in fear that someone else will have the courage to turn their backs on it and indirectly, turn their backs on them personally. This is all so incredibly simple to me. They are the ones who fear death... I don't... and I don't even have a happy place to go to afterwards. Now please try to make some sense of that for me.

Bottom line of my entire point is that, it is they who live in constant fear. I do not. Yet they get some rush outta calling me weak. Go figger!

Take care, and thanks for your wise words.

The Naked Mage

No one's saying that they give a damn whether or not anyone gives a damn if they "pop" themselves in here, Seraphim. You seem to be a bit slow grasping this concept.

Mad Kally

If I try to talk to her at all, she gets real weird and starts repeating "EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW ON JUDGMENT DAY!" Once I had had to call the cops to get her out of here. She has never been able to answer simple questions. If I get angry it just convinces her I am possessed by the devil. Avoiding her is the only answer. I'm so glad I found this website and decided I was MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

Kally

P.S. I gave a damn about MadMordigan's suicide, and I still do.

philosopherMD

That life is worth living is the most necessary of assumptions, for were it not assumed, is the most impossible of conclusions.

Bertrand Russell

winstonjen

On the contrary. Self-harm is the hardest thing to do - we all have a natural urge against it. It is very hard to slit your wrists - your brain will unconsciously reduce the damage you do by preventing you from cutting as deep as you may be able to.