Shadowy Man

Yes, I can see that they may have problems with evolution happening over the last 6000 years, but what about the next 1 billion years? Can evolution not even happen in the future? Are species forever unchanging? Or can species only change on the "micro" level, like the different breeds of dogs?

Starboy

Is there a difference between microevolution and evolution in general?

Starboy

Oolon Colluphid

Nope

Well, to be precise:
Macroevolution: evolution which no reasonable person denies.
Microevolution: evolution which even creationists cannot deny.

It’s all evolution; micro- is the stuff that goes on in populations, where natural selection reigns, up to speciation, formation of reproductive barriers etc; macro- is ‘evolution above the species level’. Macro- is dependant on what RM&NS produces, of course, but it is principally concerned with patterns across longer (usually geological) time, and so also takes account of extinction events, ‘continental drift’, etc.

Cheers, Oolon

excreationist

They'd think that over time the gene pool would accumulate harmful and neutral mutations. There would be a small number of beneficial mutations but these would be far outweighed by the harmful ones. (They say we have accumulated thousands of genetic defects since "the fall" - that's why incest was wrong in the time of Moses)
It could be *possible* that the beneficial mutations far outweigh the harmful ones, but it would be very unlikely. In the same way, it would theoretically be *possible* for me to win the lottery every week for the next ten years, but that doesn't mean there is much chance of it happening.

Starboy

Thanks Oolon, that is what I thought. But not being a biologist, and still new to this forum, I was unsure of the terms being used.

GeoTheo

Are you delusional? I'm being serious. I mean no offense. What is your church background? You have described a scenario totally foreign to me as well as any Christian I have ever talked to. I am a conservative fundamentalist Baptist. Ken Ham visited a Bible college I attended. So I for the last 10 years have been elbow to elbow with YEC's.
I have never once met a person trapped into believing somthing against their will. I have never met a Pastor with the type of authority you describe. Perhaps Radical Islamic leaders hold such sway and maybe Roman Catholic Priests during the inquisition, but no Baptist Pastor in America. In fact Baptists Pastors have a high turnover rate. On average they are voted out or leve on their own accord every three years. We are very democratic and have a Chuch government that allows us to choose our own leaders by a vote.
Basically people join a Baptist Church to be with people who believe like themselves. No different than this forum. (for most of the atheists, not my reason for joining here.) You have a support structure etc. If I decided to believe in theistic evolution, it may not even come up a s a point of contention unless I wanted to teach it to children in sunday school or somthing. If It did become a point of contention there are countless other denominations of Christianity I could join.
What planet are you from?

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]</p>

Starboy

Mr. GeoTheo,

Do you believe in the absolute truth of the bible and the teachings of Jesus?

Starboy

GeoTheo

No I'm a Satanist. A republican voting, non dancing, non-drinking, non-smoking Young Earth creationist Satan worsipper. I am ant-abortion, pro-death penalty, head of my home. But heck no I don't believe the Bible or Jesus. Who does these days!?!? I guess you are going to totally evade all of my questions? Yes? No?
Look, sorry for the sarcasm, but We live in a free country. There is nobody going around trapping people into believing in young earth creation against their will. It just ain't happening.

MrDarwin

Let's put it a little differently: have you ever heard anybody say that you can't be a true Christian and also believe in evolution?

Starboy

Hi GeoTheo,

I guess you are right. No one in this country is ever tricked or hoodwinked. There have never been any televangelists that have so hypnotized their followers that they think nothing of sending them money for no really good reason other than because preacher man said that God told him that they should do it. There are no religious groups that get so crazy that they come to the conclusion that they should all drink poisoned kool aid. I am sure that if they did, it was something that any rational, mentally healthy person would do. And of course we all know that David Koresh was not a madman, but just a misunderstood saint, and didn't have a strange phycopathic hold over his followers.

What was I thinking! Thank you GeoTheo sooooo much for straitening me out.

Halleluiah!

Starboy

P.S. If you would like to have a sane discussion, let me know.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>