Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AdamWho · 04-26-2003, 10:37 AM

I think that the OP misses the point:

In a Libertarian society, protection of the people is one of the legitimate functions of government, everything else is left to competition. Protection of the people and their "liberty" is the cornerstone of Libertarianism. To suggest that the duties of protecting the people would be not handled directly by the government is to confuse Libertarianism with some other form of government.

The police would not be left to competition; they would be run like the military. There would be no striking, unions, right to collective bargaining. However, they would probably get paid significantly better because of all the other duties of government would be gone.

meritocrat · 04-26-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
Libertarians believe that protection of the people is one of the few jobs of government. So I think under a Libertarian system the police would be like the military and the right to organize or strike would not exist.

No offence but that's nonsense. Most libertarians I've ever spoken with have fully agreed with notion of forming trade unions.

AdamWho · 04-26-2003, 10:57 AM

meritocrat

Quote:

No offence but that's nonsense. Most libertarians I've ever spoken with have fully agreed with notion of forming trade unions.

Where did I say that the governement would not allow trade unions? I said that the police would be run like the military and would not be allowed to strike. Did you think that I was suggesting that the right to organize IN GENERAL would not exist? Far from it.

me

Quote:

Libertarians believe that protection of the people is one of the few jobs of government.

Do you know any libertarians that would disagree with this statement? It is a corner stone of the libertarian system.

me

Quote:

So I think under a Libertarian system the police would be like the military and the right to organize or strike would not exist.

This statement is an opinion as shown in the phrase "So I think". I make no claim to speak for all or any Libertarians.

My point is only:
I believe that a Libertarian government would place so much imporatance on defence locally and globally that they would run the police like the military. The military is not run by the marketplace, doesn't have collective bargaining rights or the right to form unions.

This is why I think the OP misses the point.

Loren Pechtel · 04-26-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Exactly. In the business world you really don't have to make a better good or service, you just have to get rid of the competition. Hence the need of a strong government.

No, the need of a government that won't wimp out because of campaign contributions.

Loren Pechtel · 04-26-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
I think that the OP misses the point:

In a Libertarian society, protection of the people is one of the legitimate functions of government, everything else is left to competition. Protection of the people and their "liberty" is the cornerstone of Libertarianism. To suggest that the duties of protecting the people would be not handled directly by the government is to confuse Libertarianism with some other form of government.

The police would not be left to competition; they would be run like the military. There would be no striking, unions, right to collective bargaining. However, they would probably get paid significantly better because of all the other duties of government would be gone.

In the not too distant future private police would be quite possible. It would be a form of insurance. You contract with a police company to provide coverage. Should you be the victim of a crime it's their job to catch the perpetrator.

I haven't heard of a practical way to replace the patrol cop with a private system, though--the guy patrolling and seeing a crime doesn't know whose customer the victim is.

RED DAVE · 04-26-2003, 11:40 PM

From Melkor:

Quote:

Our current system had its origins in libertarian concepts, after all, even if it no longer adheres to them.

Yeah, like slavery. That was my personal favorite of the values of our Founding Fathers.

RED DAVE

Ultron · 04-27-2003, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
When some one signs up to military, they temporarily suspend lots of their rights.

Technically they forfeit all their constitutional rights.

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
I believe that in a strict libertarian society the police force would have to be run like this.
The defense of the people in a libertarian society is NOT a function of the market. Libertarians understand that the government still needs to have a monopoly of power so that people can pursue their "liberties".

Correct, there is a difference between anarchy and a libertarian govt.

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamWho
The idea floating around about individuals having to hire "protection" in a libertarian society are strawman.

Agreed.

Ultron · 04-27-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Even if there are more there is no guarantee of quality of service either. People will get the cheapest they can. Quality is a secondary concern with most. Just look at M$ and Windows. Windows is crap, yet it is on over 95% of the computers in the world. Why? Because it usually comes included with the system.

In theory competition works, but in practice it is not so clear.

Competition does work, but it's not perfect. Imagine if the govt had just in the beginning picked MS in the first place and shut everything down? A lot of people still made money over the years selling competative products.

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04-26-2003, 10:37 AM	#21
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	I think that the OP misses the point: In a Libertarian society, protection of the people is one of the legitimate functions of government, everything else is left to competition. Protection of the people and their "liberty" is the cornerstone of Libertarianism. To suggest that the duties of protecting the people would be not handled directly by the government is to confuse Libertarianism with some other form of government. The police would not be left to competition; they would be run like the military. There would be no striking, unions, right to collective bargaining. However, they would probably get paid significantly better because of all the other duties of government would be gone.

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