leonarde

Partial post (on height question):A 'trend' that goes back 250 years could hardly be assumed to have begun 2 millenia ago or more. Whether it's due to diet or not is supremely relevant since the diet of 1st Century Gallilee may have been excellent. It makes no sense to talk about '250 years' without designating a geographic location: there may be aboriginal populations extant whose diet is the same as it was 250 years ago.

Cheers!

Principia

LOL. At what "such high temperatures?" 961 centigrade!!?

Well, let's think about this a bit. If leonard(e)'s arguments hold true, then the entire cloth ought to have gone up in flames "at such high temperatures." And yet it didn't. Truly miraculous.

The silver box melted, yes. And by most accounts it's the silver that charred the cloth. But all that mfaber is suggesting is that the ambient temperature was uncomfortably toasty -- not entirely unbelievable if one has been in a fire. I added to this simple observation by noting that it only had to achieve 60 degrees, before most proteins denature.

keyser_soze

Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun, it shines every where.




Twelfth Night 3.1.38-39

leonarde

Partial post:I was referring to (and I made it explicit): this thread . On past Shroud of Turin threads I found my most, uh, energetic interlocutors ignorant of the subject and proud of that ignorance.
So I merely used the opportunities to give lurkers (ie readers of these pages) references for a deeper knowledge. Speaking of which: the best recent book on the subject is : "The Blood and the Shroud: new evidence that the world's most sacred relic is real / Ian Wilson. (1998)

Cheers!

keyser_soze

Perhaps they were using a firesafe vault?

Principia

Incidentally, the melting point of red iron oxide (red ochre) is about 3000 degrees centigrade, according to this source.

keyser_soze

Don't you think that it would be best to first support your assertions amongst the simplest of rebuttals before others would feel obliged to go visit your links? You pretty much rebutted your own arguments for us...we only threw in the catcalls and made sure that others were aware of how weak the arguments were.

Principia

Well, I think this is a good response to keyser's question about leonard(e)'s motivation here. He is condescending alright.

But, honestly, I don't care what you're referring to. You spam without restraint, here and elsewhere. Only julbon and mturner could be proud.

leonarde

Partial post:Correction: PART OF the silver box melted. Or at least part of the outside of the silver box. But since we don't know how long the cloth was subjected to the heat and calculations of temperature differentials are .....speculative, I find the fire a wash as to bearing on authenticity. But for some experts, for some purposes the fire has some bearing on the likeliness of specific pigments having been used. So, for instance, Isabel Piczek when talking about Vermilion had this to say:Above from: http://shroud.com/piczek.htm
A very valuable document called "Is the Shroud of Turin a Painting?".

Cheers!

Principia

Speaking of color changes to pigments. Does anyone know what the color of coagulated blood normally is (because y'know, Jesus's blood ain't normal! )