fried beef sandwich

Sunday 5pm. My mother answered a phone call. She came out 5 minutes later in tears.

For the past year, my uncle has been having symptoms that closely resemble TB - coughing, fatigue, unexplained weight loss. However, he never sought out medical treatment - he's had a really tough time with jobs (he doesn't speak english very well, so he always gets hired by cheap-ass/corrupt Chinese companies/fronts for corrupt chinese officials), and he's been working his ass off trying to find any job whatsoever and keep it. No time to visit the doctor.

Well, turns out he has lung cancer. Fuck. Stage 4 lung cancer. Fuck. Inoperable. Fuck.

He has four months to live.


...fuck.


My mom was a complete wreck. I was too. Why? Because besides myself, my uncle is the only other nonbeliever in my family. He and I are also pretty similar in certain respects: a desire to be self-sufficient and independent; preference of reason over emotion; athiest. Like me, he took the non-traditional route in his life, although his life was decidedly harder than mine: dropped out of college to work in a bunch of shitty jobs, went back to school, got his degree, but wasn't successful in business or work after he graduated at the age of 30. Married, divorced,
no kids. Today, at the age of 60, he is still scraping together a meager existence, with nothing to his name. He does have health care, though.

I gave my mom a hug, and we stood there for about 30 seconds. Then, she led me into the living room and sat me down (you know what's coming). She says to me, "Things like these remind us that we have so little time on this earth. You've been away from god for too long. Isn't it time to come back?"

I don't know what to say. On the one hand, my mom is now so terrified that I'm going to die an unbeliever, and she's doing this because she loves me and wants the best of me. On the other hand, right now I am emotionally vulnerable. I absolutely HATE the fact that evangelical Christianity so often takes advantage of people's emotional vulnerabilities. Any valid and true religion should be able to stand on its own without preying on ppl's insecurities.

Anyway, we have a strained conversation, where I'm basically making concessions to her because I don't want to hurt her any more. I don't want to make her life any more miserable than it will be for the next few months, or even the next few years. I say to her that if god exists, he is not an omnimax god, he is as human as you and I. I also tell her that if I become a christian, I will not be an evangelical christian. I also agree to read a couple of Christian books, but she still refuses to read anything that I've read. She's afraid of "poisoning her mind." If it was any other day, I would have stood up for what I believed, but I didn't feel like arguing that day.

What am I supposed to do? This is the first time anyone in my family is in serious danger of dying ever since I became an atheist 4 (?) years ago. This is also the first chance I have to deal with death as an atheist. I feel really uneasy that I basically compromised my position just because I didn't want to hurt my mom. I'm also seriously considering going back to a form of Christianity that doesn't require you to be a hypocritical, evangelical bible-twisting asshole, mostly to make my family have some ease of mind but when I tried to slide ideas by my mom, I don't think that's going to be enough of a compromise. I tried to float the idea of a limited, non-omnimax god, and such, but she immediately accused me of twisting the scripture and believing all the "poison" I had read before.

The other thing that I see as inevitable is this: that my mom and all our relatives are going to be trying to evoke a deathbed conversion for my uncle. I don't know what my uncle is going to do. He has had a really shitty life, and has been very hardworking and stubborn. This cancer diagnosis.... it might just break him down. He has in the past told me that he thinks that church, everything, etc, is really fake, and he only wants "what's real." But this cancer might very well just break him down.

Am I supposed to be the atheist counter-balance to all this "please, just accept God so you can get into heaven?" Is it right for me to counter-evangelize my uncle? I mean, it IS his decision to accept christianity, and admittedly, whatever can give him comfort in his final days is a good thing, isn't it?

Yet, if he converts, it will give the rest of my family hope that I will one day convert too. If he doesn't, it will give the rest of my family the motivation to make sure that one day I will convert. An orgy of evangelism is right around the corner, and when my uncle dies, you can bet your fucking gonads they are going to turn up the heat on me.

I'm really conflicted right now, I've got a lot of thoughts and conflicting emotions running through my head. I feel like anything I do I will either end up being the bad guy or the next big target for the evangelism arrow.

I mentioned before in a previous thread that the way things stand right now, I no longer debate religious topics anymore, and my knowledge of things has seriously fallen by the wayside. That makes me less of an asshole in their eyes when we debate (because I just brush it off instead of rebut and refute) and part of the reason why is because I realized that having these religious "discussions" wasn't doing much good for our family unity or happiness. So, I took what I thought was the mature step and tried to live an existence where it wasn't an issue.

But there is no compromise. With these evangelical christians, you're either completely with them or you just don't understand/are poisoned/are in the wrong belief system

I don't know what to do. I really don't. I feel like in my vulnerable state right now, I'd do anything to make my parents happy - they're going through enough pain as it is. Yet, I can't stand being dishonest tomyself either. Even worse, I can't stand not giving myself a fair chance to live life without God. Hell, as soon as I told my parents I was an atheist they were telling me to come back to Him so my life would get better. My life is tons better right now without god. I don't know what my mom and dad have in mind when they say my life will be better. What
does that mean? That I will lose my virginity soon? That I will become the president of a major corporation? That I will die in 3 days and go toheaven?

Everything seems to be boiling up around me. I really don't know - how am I supposed to behave without causing more pain to others around me right now? Should I even be thinking this way?

I'm sorry for the formatting, I typed up in notepad. But I have ot leave right now.

Edited to fix formatting.

MzNeko

I'm so sorry fried beef sandwich, that's really rough.

I hate it too when the religious folks try to vulture on you when you're emotionally vulnerable. It reminds me of funeral home sales people that try to sell the grieving family the most expensive casket. Ugh.

Well, for yourself, do what you need to do to get through this time. Not necessarily turn religious, but vague answers and the phrase "I'm not ready to talk about this right now" may come in handy.

For your uncle... well, it's not your job to "counter-evangelize." If he decides to go religious, it's his decision. However, one great thing you could do is be there for him and listen if he needs someone to bitch to about the evangelizing. Being the only other non-religious person in the family, you are in a unique position to be an understanding listener if he needs to vent, about religious stuff, about dying, about his fears... It sounds like a lot of the other relatives may be too busy preaching at him to listen.

Good luck, I wish I had more help to offer.

Kevbo

It sounds from your words about your uncle that your family has at least some partial Oriental heritage. If so, maybe you can point out to your mother that ancient Hebrew culture is impressing itself over your heritage.

As far as family and religion in your situation, I'd try to remain as neutral as possible. Make it clear that you don't want to discuss the topic when your family attempts to evangelize. Don't even bother arguing or rationalizing with them, just make it clear that this event does not influence your beliefs, that you love your uncle, and that you are not comfortable discussing religion at this time. Also, I'd suggest that you let your uncle come to his own decision unless he seeks your input. It sounds like he might deserve some fantasy time with all the hardship he's had, but maybe he won't want it.

Viti

I am sorry about your uncle I would do as MzNeko suggested and make sure he knows you are there to listen and support and he'll receive no judgement or preaching about anything from you.

As for your folks...it's a decision many atheists have to make. Do we demand our non-belief be accepted and dealt with, or do we lay low for the sake of family harmony?

I didn't have to make that decision, but my husband did. He told his mother he respected her beliefs and either she accepted his or he wouldn't speak to her anymore. The choice was hers whether she wanted her son in her life. The choice was hers whether she loved who he was in every other regard, or if religious beliefs overrode every other trait. She chose her son...but he was willing to say goodbye had she not.

Ultimately it is up to you what is more important. Can you be happy living a lie as long as your family is happy? Can you make yourself actually believe in God again?

Roland98

That's terrible. I'm so sorry you have to be put through this. I think the best thing you can do is to hold your ground as firmly as you can without being argumentative with your mom. If you make concessions now, even though it would probably be the easiest thing, it will only make it that much worse on you later. As for your uncle, if you get a chance, I'd talk to him and ask him his views. Maybe he's scared and would like to talk to someone who isn't going to evangelize, who can understand his worldview and not be judgemental.

What a shitty situation. I hope you can keep your sanity and just do what's best for your uncle. Good luck to you.

HelenM

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle

It's a stressful time for you and your family; I suggest you do what you can to avoid discussing touchy subjects for now and also, try to respect (as in, let them get on with, even if you don't like them) their ways of dealing with your uncle's illness, which probably have much more to do with religion than you'd like, just as you would like them to respect yours (even if that's not happening).

Keep posting here and/or find other people to talk with who share your own understanding of life and death and can understand your frustrations at having to be around people who not only see it differently but also may be too stressed and upset to consider your feelings and respect your chosen way of dealing with you uncle's illness.

I hope you will have some opportunites to be with him alone, while that's still possible.

Helen

Buddrow_Wilson

Years from now, I think you will feel better if you do not compromise your beliefs here. Obviously avoid conflict if at all possible. Sometimes saying nothing is best. Perhaps in the short term try to concentrate on what is most important, your uncle, your relationship with him and the time you have left. After he has passed on, you will realize there is much time to sort the rest out.

B34RZ0R

Cancer sucks FBS there is no two ways about it. I had it when I was 19 and watched my Mother die of it in 2000, same kind as your uncle Stage 4 Lung Cancer. I offer my deepest condolences to your entire family. I would as others have suggested stand firm in your Atheistic views. If you appear to soften now you will only be poked and proded more later because they feel that they are actually winning. My Sister and I have had some debates (via email) about the religion thing and hasn't lessened our 'unity' or at least thats what she says. I think the evangelical faith is just plain scary - ok all religion is scary to me but that one becuase it was IN my family. They DO prey on peoples vulnerability and that is sad that they have to resort to trickery and emotional vampirism to try and get others to convert!

Spend time with your uncle as much as you can. And as a side note you didn't mention if he is going to go through any treatment to try to improve his quality of time left (thats what the Dr's said about the treatment my Mom got - made it worse IMO). If he does go through Chemo and or Radiation therapy when you or family members go to see him: no perfume - dont bring food unless HE specifically states he wants you to. I say this from my experience and my Mothers - chemo and radiation change your sence of smell - make it somehow stronger and the smallest amount of unwanted scent can send you to the bathroom nauseated (sp?) Just try and hang out with him talk - try to get him and other family members to talk about happy things from when they were all young, it relieves the tension in the room and quite possibly will help give him a little break from any evangilising that may happen. Take care and take care of your uncle.

Bearach

fried beef sandwich

thanks for your posts so far, everyone. I'll probably be talking to my fam again on Wednesday, since right now I'm preparing for midterms and such. I've brought a few philosophy books and Karen Armstrong's A History of God out of storage - just to brush up and be prepared.

I really don't intend to cause a ruckus, and I'll try to keep your advice in mind as the days go by.

Albion

I'm really sorry to hear about your uncle's illness. I just heard yesterday that a good friend has cancer, and it's a hard thing to come to terms with.

There was a case on the BBC board a few months ago when one of the regulars flew thousands of miles to Texas to sit at her dying mother in law's bedside and try and convert the atheist old lady to "bible-believing spirit-filled" Christianity. She failed (went home in high dudgeon and told the kids that granny's burning in hell for all eternity), but the sheer fact that this poor lady's last days were full of fundamentalist fire and brimstone is just appalling. Of course, it was Texas, or I assume someone might have tried to do something about it. You might be the only person standing between your uncle and that sort of abuse, and I'm sure he'll be grateful for whatever support and protection you can give him.

As far as your own situation is concerned, don't think for one minute that any self-respecting fundamentalist will be satisfied to compromise on liberal Christianity. To them, it's almost worse than atheism because the liberal Christian believes himself to be a Christian already, when the fundamentalist knows he's as lost as the average Satanist. You might as well stay true to your own beliefs (or lack thereof) unless you're prepared to be totally assimilated for the sake of a quiet life.