St. Robert

How about the desires that cause joy? Is joy contained in the realm of all suffering for a Buddhist?

AdamWho

Yes, even existance itself is suffering, it is the same for the Christian it is just called "seperation from God is suffering".

Desire in previous posts is defined as clinging or excessive attachment. I don't think you will have to look far to find people having excess attachment and clinging to joy, leading to sufering.

In talking about this subject (like all controversial topics) there are definition problems. Try to understand that even Buddhist monks, contemplating their whole lives find new connections between desire (big definition) and suffering. It deserves a serious look and might give you a fresh way to see your religion (I looked at you profile).

St. Robert

Is there anything that isn't associated with desire and suffering from a Buddhist perspective?

If not, then I suppose a Buddhist would say that everything causes everything.

Because I have accepted the sufferings of Christ, I can enjoy eternal joy and peace now in a secular and suffer-filled existence.

Grizzly

this thread has developed a serious potential to veer off course. Let's try to keep to the topic of desire and suffering. Even a Christian vs. Buddist views of desiring and suffering is fine, but let's try and stay on topic and for Buddha's sake, NO PROSELYTIZING.


Grizzly

Eudaimonist

Will someone answer my question about how each of the practices in the eightfold path achieves the goal of inner peace, assuming that is their common purpose?

St. Robert

True inner peace cannot be achieved by performance-based systems like the Buddhist eight-fold path or the five pillars of Isalm.

AdamWho

Eudaimonist:

Are you looking for a Buddhist to make an objective statements about the eightfold path?
"Right Thinking == X". I think objective "shoulds" are untenable.

I believe that following any "path" in a disciplined way will lead to "inner peace" because it structures a persons life and helps remove uncertainty; a major source of unhappiness.

As far as the eightfold path, it just seems like a list of things a person should consider, whatever path they are on.

Buddhism seems to be placing the responsibility for finding "the right X", on the individual, just where it should be. Of course most people will not take the responsibility, giving it to others, which will eventually leading to the creation of "religion".

AdamWho

St Robert:

Calling Buddhism a "performance-based system" is the most absurd and ill-informed thing you have said yet. If you do not understand something then ask, someone will answer or try to find out. If you disagree with something then supply arguements to back up you opinion, I think people will listen.

Yes and no, the Four Nobel Truths are part of a path of discovery, not a slogans or commandments. You have to think about them.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Causality in Buddhism is plain-old-materialist causality.

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: AdamWho ]</p>

Eudaimonist

Are you speaking for Buddhism here, or for yourself?

I'm asking what each of the practices in the eightfold path is intended to accomplish, and how they do so. This is equivalent to asking a rocket scientist how rockets work. Such a scientist might say that combustion of fuel provides propulsion for the rocket.

Does this mean that the selection of practices in the eightfold path is arbitrary?

[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Eudaimonist ]</p>

Eudaimonist

Are you saying that no Buddhist has ever found inner peace? That's an astounding claim. Any evidence for that?