winstonjen

Well, there have been some investigations into the motives of doctors when they prescribe mass amounts of morphine.

It's sad, but true - it is easy to say the motive was to relieve pain, but some quadraplegics are not in physical pain, but mental anguish that sometimes can't be cured.

Quote:

Winston, we have a code of ethics to remember. I would never deliberately break the law by bumping off a patient. My hospice patients don't want to die anyway! How many times have I said that in different threads. I've also reminded you several times that morphine slows respirations and can hasten death. However, their tolerance for morphine and other narcotics builds up at the same time. My patients do NOT scream in pain and beg to die! Where do you get all this information? One article in a newspaper? I'm really curious.

In Australia, palliative care is very poor. No hospice is perfect, and not everyone wants to go to hospice.

For some, morphine causes constipation, so to them, it's not worth it. They know they are going to die soon.

After all, hospice is a place for the terminally ill, isn't it?

False dichotomy? What's that?

I was making a point about a situation where the law forbid you to give morphine because it 'might' cause addiction or 'might' hasten death.

What would you do then?

winstonjen

I agree, but pro-lifers and others consider pulling the plug and 'letting die' to be 'passive' for some reason. What is passive about actively removing the plug? Nothing.

Mad Kally

No, I'm a home health hospice nurse. I go to their homes. I think you're right. The situation must be much worse where you live.

excreationist

It involves withdrawing extra medical help... they could say it is "leaving it in the Lord's hands" since the person may survive a while or perhaps recover if the plug is pulled.
Active euthanasia involves things that are meant to guarantee death - those techniques would be lethal even to a very healthy person.

Sabine Grant

Hello all ! I thought I would give what I understand to be the definition of euthanasia as it appears that some of us may have a different understanding .

I understand euthanasia to be a measure of mercy. Not suicide. Induced by the decision to not bear any longer with the physical, mental and emotional sufferings caused by a terminal illness. Since the patient is aware of his terminal condition he has then the option to accelerate the process of death to terminate undue suffering.

I care for one ALS patient who is slowly experiencing all the various progressive stages of the physical degradation caused by his illness. I have no doubt that he experiences also both mental and emotional agony. I would evaluate that such a person should have the right to ask for early termination of his life if he wished to. He chose to have a Living Will limiting his existence to the time when his respiratory function ceases. I suspect though that if he were allowed to request euthanasia, he would consider it despite of his endurance and " I will do the best with it " approach. In his case, the withdrawal of his G Tube would be the method of euthanasia.

Sabine Grant

Hello Kally ! We both work in people's homes where they benefit of family support and their initial environment and I think it makes a great difference in the way patients will bear with certain medical conditions. So we are not necessarly exposed to the patient who wants to die.

However place the same patient in a hospital , maybe their state of mind will change. I am 100% for home care for the terminaly ill.
And all the hospice nurses I have met are wonderful dedicated people!

I had the apportunity to attend a counseling session between a hospice nurse in charge of one particular case and the husband of the terminaly ill patient. He was in denial of her imminent death and still planning a trip to Europe with her. This nurse was able to refocus his thoughts on the upcoming reality while easing off his fears.

I cannot imagine the degree of counseling and support the family members of a patient who would request euthanasia would necessitate. We are also talking about providing training for the Health care workers who interact with the family.

Mad Kally

Sabine,
I had an ALS patient once. She was totally trapped in an unmoving body with a brain that was crystal clear. Seeing that one particular disease makes me rethink things I say here. (That's all I better say about that) It has to be the worst disease ever!

P.S. NO, I didn't do it..

Mad Kally

Sabine,
I work for the Visiting Nurse Association. (VNA) All our HHA's and even volunteers have excellent training. If there's one in your area look into it.. (good money too)

Sabine Grant

Yes. His brain is crystal clear too. He is such an inspiration though. He still has some mobility. His eyes remain the most human part of him. I have learned to read eyes because of him. He can still giggle and that part tells me that he is OK with being alive. He has no choice though.
There would be the heck of a struggle in my head if euthanasia were legalized and part of a nurse's duty were to execute the order of euthanasia prescribed by a doctor upon request of the patient. What do you think ?

Sabine Grant

yes we have one here too. I am happy working for my present registry. The RN I work under is training me with various patients so I can acquire multiple skills to prepare me for hospice then nursing school.