scigirl

Heh - I bet the guys who did that study had a blast! "Excuse me ma'am, I didn't quite get the measurement of your skirt, could you bend over again?"

scigirl

Dune

In regards to this study and women on hormonal birth control:
The hormone levels from the pills (in a rude sense) trick your body into thinking its pregnant, so why would that promote a need to get pregnant again?

Also- if a woman is using mechanical birth control (devises) how does the body know that in order to make women forget to use it?
(I may have misinterpreted what is being put forward here so feel free to correct me)

Daleth

What's being suggested (I believe) is that when a woman is ovulating her body "wants" to get pregnant and so the chemicals it produces will try to "trick" her mind out of avoiding pregnancy in any way.

I think it's wrong. If that were true, the first reasonable assumption would be that a woman's libido is highest when she's ovulating, but I think that's been shown to be false... and in just my personal experience my libido is highest right before menstruation (when it's absolutely impossible to get pregnant) and when I am actually already pregnant. If a woman's sex drive is not at its highest when she's most likely to get pregnant, it seem that much less likely that her hormones are trying to push her into pregnancy in sneakier ways. But that's not science. That's just what seems right to me.

Dal

Dune

<quote>What's being suggested (I believe) is that when a woman is ovulating her body "wants" to get pregnant and so the chemicals it produces will try to "trick" her mind out of avoiding pregnancy in any way. <quote>

Hrm....seems kinda hand-wavey.
What chemicals?

ps418

One thing I wonder about is how could you demonstrate true forgetting versus, say, simply lying about whether you 'forgot' to take birth control or not? Maybe some of those women knew full well that they did not take BC, but for whatever reason prefer to now remember it or describe it as an accident of forgetfulness. Or maybe they deliberately neglected to take BC, and then, posthoc, convinced themselves that they'd forgot? I'm not a woman, of course, but I would certainly find it hard to "forget" to use birth control, given the immense consequences of pregnancy.

Patrick

scigirl

Interesting. . . I can't seem to notice a difference based on my cycle, but there are certain songs on the radio. . . .

I think this issue is so tough because there are so many variables that go into creating our libido. You would have to do a huge study with a ton of women to even come close to answering this question. But it is an interesting one. I personally like those studies they talk about on the Discovery Channel, with pheremones and how people will always pick a certain phone booth or movie theater seat - and even fight over them - because some scientist had spread pheremones all over it. If there is a birth-control-forgetting phenomenon, it's possible it's due more to male pheremones than time of the month, especially since sperm can be viable for 5 days in the uterine tubes.

scigirl

Daleth

I'll tell you if you tell me what hand-wavey means.

Progesterone, which kicks up to high for ovulation and stays that way until menstruation.
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Estradiol (E2)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH) -- there is a surge of this hormone followed by ovulation within 48 hours

All of these chemicals exist in the body at different levels (than at other times in the cycle) during or right before ovulation. The study doesn't state or hazard a guess at which hormone or which combination of them might cause this specialized hijacking of the brain, but like I said, I think it's bunk.

Dal

scigirl

Just to clarify...

Progesterone is very low during the follicular phase, then goes up a teeny teeny bit during ovulation, then stays up until the luteal phase is over.

The LH surge is not seen with women on birth control - that's how birth control works - by preventing the LH surge.

I think most women do have the estrogen surge though (normally the estrogen surge induces the LH surge, but not if you are on the pill). I"ll have to investigate this.

Otherwise I agree with your post,

scigirl

Daleth

Right. For all of this I'm assuming no birth control pill because the study in the OP assumes ovulation occurring (it must have because these were women who did get pregnant ).

Is it really just a small increase in progesterone? Man, it feels like a lot when it drops off cold a day or 2 before menstruation (causing PMS emotional swings). I'll have to look that up. My memory of this stuff is a couple years old.

On second thought, I will take your word for it. You're the MD (to be?) and I seriously don't need to reawaken my obsession with pregnancy.

Dal

ETA: Progesterone stays high if you're pregnant (it increases at ovulation to support a pregnancy if that should happen). Perhaps this is the culprit... pregnant women often claim to have mush-brain. Maybe the lower dosage at ovulation is responsible for the supposed forgetfulness.

scigirl

Hey Dal,

I was just going from my phys notes. However, a "small" increase is still very physiologically relevant - I'm sure you weren't imagining things!

There's that hormone graph at this on line biology book site. But it's not entirely accurate - -and a statement that this site made was what prompted me to start that poll about the morning after pill.

scigirl