lpetrich

That would not eliminate all suicide attacks, however. Desperado attacks by those who expect to die soon, for example. The Japanese WWII kamikaze attacks were essentially a desperado strategy, since Japan had been losing the War of the Pacific very badly. Those most willing to participate were from the Navy, which by late 1944 had faced a series of crushing defeats. Which fits in with the desperado picture. But some recruits had to be promised a nice fate haunting the Yasukuni Shrine, Japan's national war memorial.

And it's possible to be motivated by the prospect of striking a big blow against one's enemies; that is apparently the big motivator in the "Black Tiger" branch of the Tamil Tiger terrorist group.

But what is weird about the kamikaze hijackers is the lack of any apparent larger motivation besides being martyrs for Islam and becoming worthy of having a harem of lovelies in the next world. Nothing about "striking a blow against Islam's biggest enemy" or "those smug Americans will finally know real fear" or whatever.

lpetrich

True, some religions make a big deal out of supposed rewards and punishments after death, but some do not.

A good place to look is the Bible -- much of the Old Testament, a.k.a. the Tanakh, has very little sign of afterlife belief. One can become a ghost that can be conjured up, but that's about all. In Ecclesiastes, the Preacher strongly hints that there is no afterlife.

Likewise, in the Homeric epics, the afterlife is a shadowy existence in Hades.

I think the source of such beliefs is the difficulty of imagining oneself nonexistent -- the consciousness has to survive, even if it leads a very lame, disembodied existence.

lpetrich

I'm sorry to hear that, O HD. I have expected nonexistence after death all my life, but I'm not a nervous wreck as a result.

But if I discover that there is something on the Other Side, I will try to find out how it had happened. Perhaps with the help of whatever books Dr. Isaac Asimov had written on the subject while in this realim

Marduk

"A good place to look is the Bible -- much of the Old Testament, a.k.a. the Tanakh, has very little sign of afterlife belief."

I like the Sumerian version, men and gods together, underground, in the dark eating dust and bumping into each other.
"The Decent of Inanna into the Underworld"


"So that would mean death is just circumcisiom of the soul?"

Or circumcision of the body

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

Secular Pinoy

I'm sorry you feel bitter like that. I know we here in the Science and Skepticism forum have debunked your cherished beliefs. They are absurd to begin with. I hope you can move on and leave this bitterness behind.

Veil of Fire

Your version of 'debunking' looks supsiciously like my version of 'appeal to ridicule'.

And, more to the point, not a damn thing has been 'debunked' in this thread. Unless of course you consider a light correlational response combined with overwhelming bias and prickishness to constitude a successful debunking.

Is there such a thing as an intellectually HONEST atheist?

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Veil of Fire ]</p>

Secular Pinoy

There, there now. You must control your anger.

galiel

No, but in my experience a light correlational response combined with overwhelming bias and prickishness goes well with an '89 Chablis.

Veil of Fire

Secular: I'll control my anger as soon as you control your stupidity.

How come Lyin' for Jeebus is bad, but Lyin' for Skeptics is a-ok?

Marduk

You are right VoF, as always it depends on whose ox is being gored, the study "proves" nothing. Also it is rather amusing, "yea! I'm a piece of meat! Yahoo!
Root root root for the home team!
Fun god sun god Ra Ra Ra!