Proxima Centauri

nd take the consequences.

brighid

Personally, I felt that her actions in that thread came as no surprise. They were indicative of what appeared to be someone attempting to shift blame or cast doubt on her guilt in order to avoid certain foreseeable consequences. Unfortunately I have personally had a lot of experience with those sorts of behaviors and probably even employed similar ones in my youth. Perhaps that is why I felt no surprise with her later responses, but that might just be me.

I would have felt sympathetic for her situation if it was reasonably clear she had made a freshmen mistake, and if she had genuinely admitted her mistake. It is likely that a school board that places so much weight on honor and integrity would have taken that into account and allowed that to reflect favorably on the outcome of her mistake.

I hope this unfortunate incident has taught Blue_Metal a valuable lesson about honesty and integrity. Everyone messes up, sometimes there are those of us who mess up big time (see story of my life), but I have found that genuinely accepting responsibility and honestly admitting the facts of the situation that led to that mistake positively mitigates the consequences. You might still have to take your lumps, but most people are willing to let by gones be by gones. You can also walk away with your self-respect knowing that you handled your mistake the best way possible. I think how one handles mistakes says much more about his/her character then the mistake actually does.

Brighid

Proxima Centauri

Brighid says, I have given the matter consideration. I have some respect for Sakpo. He did what he thought was right. More important, he was prepared to admit what he did and take the consequences. How does that compare with Blue_Metal?
Developing hard and fast rules for the future is impossible. Every case of plagiarism or other immoral action, which comes up here, will be different. I feel we can make a few general rules.
Other things being equal we should protect infidels from believers. Many infidels are isolated and have no place to turn to except here.
Other things being equal we should value believers and believing institutions less highly than institutions, which respect the scientific method.
Here's what Gemma Therese, who says she's a Roman Catholic, thinks of logic. "God asks us to think, but to surrender our logic ... to use our mental capacity not so much to reason this and that, but to recognize that we will never reach Him with our mind alone." Gemma Therese says she goes to a Roman Catholic University. Is that what she learns there?

Believers can sometimes be very underhand when they think it right to undermine an infidel. I've mentioned before I went to a Roman Catholic school. When I was sixteen, shortly before I was due to take some important external exams a teacher sent me to fetch something from a drawer. When I opened that drawer I found inside sealed envelopes containing papers for those exams. I wanted to know what was in those envelopes. I resisted temptation and put them back unopened. To this day I do not know if the teacher who asked me to open that drawer made a genuine mistake or if the school set a trap for me. Did they want an excuse to stop infidel Barbara taking that exam?
If in doubt protect an infidel who is in trouble with believers, especially Roman Catholics. Sorry to repeat that.

brighid

I would say only to do what is reasonable to protect the identity of an atheist as best as possible, especially if that person takes reasonable measures to remain anonymous. However, people who wish to remain anonymous and don’t desire any Tom, Dick and Harry to know their religious persuasion usually don’t go advertising it in a way that not only specifically illuminates their real life identity, but does so in very public way.

If a person stands up in the middle of a crowded room and shouts, “I am an atheist, my name is Jack Frost, and I attend school at University X”, isn’t it reasonable to conclude that they aren’t taking great precautions to protect this knowledge, and therefore no one is under any reasonable obligation to take ordinary (or extraordinary) measures to protect what the individual chose not to protect?

I do agree that some theists and some theist organizations do desire harm to come to any non-believer. However, I do not think it is fair to classify any theist person, or organization as desiring such without some credible evidence. Although BM attends a Christian University it does not seem (to our knowledge) that the Dean or the Administrators were prejudiced by this information. It would wrong for them, or any one else to conclude that her atheism was any root cause of her act of plagiarism, or subsequent questionable behavior. Unfortunately, some will conclude this. It is also unfortunate that her actions may only serve to reinforce the negative image some theists have of atheists.

Perhaps we will be fortunate enough to have her Dean , professor, or administrators lurking here, reading this discussion so they can better understand the ethical dilemmas and solutions non-theist people work hard to solve and implement.

Brighid

Gemma Therese

I am in a philosophy course now -- it is taught by a layperson, but a Catholic. A sister gave me the above quote. She's the one with her Ph.D. in mathematics.

Gemma Therese

Proxima Centauri

brighid

I agree, but Blue_Metal gave them plenty of ammunition without any one elses help. A few at her university may now know she is an atheist, but again that does not seem to have played any role in her punishment. If the punishment has been unjust, perhaps that argument could have been made.

As to what sort of personality disorder she may, or may not have ... I don't think any one can make any sort of accurate statement about Blue_Metal after reading a few threads in which she has posted. I don't think any one has the professional credentials to make this sort of judgment about her psyche.

Sakpo did not alienate her for reporting the truth, which the Administration, her professor and her Dean were already aware of. Furthermore, she needs to be in a position to want help before anyone could help her. Her repeated denials, obfuscations and manipulations make it seem if she is not in that place.

Blue_Metal is exclusively responsible for the fall out of her actions in all aspects: plaigirism, lying, and willing declaring her atheism, as well as her very specific and personal information to what amounts to a very public (not private) forum. Her actions are no different then what I previously described, and deserve no extra ordinary measure to protect what she did not protect herself.

Brighid

Proxima Centauri

I've read a long list of Blue_Metal's posts in many threads. I think she is a punishment seeker. You, Brighid do not have the professional knowlege to say she is not one. If she is a punishment seeker we may have harmed her. She complained frequently about being outed by us. I believe she was alienated through it.

brighid

You are correct. I do not have the professional knowledge to diagnose her one way, or the other. Therefore I suggested caution in attempting to make a determination about something as sensitive as potential psychiatric matters that we simply do not have adequate information to make such a conclusion. Do you by chance have those professional qualifications?

She outed herself, plain and simple. She wasn't "outed by US" (iidb collectively.) No harm has come to her that we are aware of. She suffered no further punishment and she alienated herself with her lying, repeated attempts at manipulation, and her refusal to accept personal responsibility for the actions she very willingly took. Alienation is a consequence of repeated behavior that damages social structures. She was given ample opportunity and very credible advice regarding the best way to handle her situation. She chose to ignore it and attempted to shift blame to others, IMO.

Morals, Foundations and Principles is not a psychiatric forum and we are not in the business of making diagnosis' about people. We are here to discuss moral issues.

Brighid

Proxima Centauri

This discussion is no longer getting very far. If you must have the last word, so be it.