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The AntiChris · 04-29-2002, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:
<strong>Okay, I feel forced to ask: how accurate is the information on <a href="http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/" target="_blank">this site?</a> It has a lot of the hallmarks of crackpot sites--paranoid tone and belief in a powerful conspiracy, specifically--yet it has more scientific backing in terms of related studies than any I've seen. Anyone?</strong>

This site looks highly dubious to me. I'm very suspicious of an organisation which claims to uncover the truth about soy with such missionary zeal:

Quote:

Soy Online Service is a small group of private citizens with a mission to inform the public of the truth about soy.

Quote:

But are you aware that there is a darker side of soy?

Quote:

"If you only knew the power of the dark side" Darth Vader

They present "scientific" evidence to support their claims but at the same time request anecdotal evidence:

Quote:

If you suspect soy/isoflavones have damaged your thyroid? Please contact us.

Whilst not dismissing their claims out of hand, I'd prefer to find a more obviously independent source of information.

Chris

droolian · 04-29-2002, 11:59 PM

SmashingIdols: Once again I will state that vegetarian literature paints a very one sided, often scientifically incorrect, view of the facts.

And you think the ADA and BBC are vegan groups?

SmashingIdols: The ADA numbers do nothing to adjust for specific diet needs, other than recommending consultation of a physician. What if you have specific allergies, (soy and wheat being extremely common ones) as an example?

What nutritional requirement would be lacking due to a person not eating soy? The ADA is one of the most respected health bodies on the planet, yet even their advice is wrong in your opinion. I’ve never heard anyone say to depend on soy for everything.

SmashingIdols: A. You honestly think that eating animal-proteins leads to baldness? Baldness is Hereditary not Dietical. I cannot believe you posted such rubbish as above. Baldness is genetic. Don't you even want to question any organization that publishes such rubbish?

It looks like a connection to me. Maybe I’m stupid, but the doctor below says we know what causes heart disease rather than saying, “oh so he’s going bald and will have heart disease.” Prevention.

Quote:

CNN: But Dr. Philip Greenland, a cardiologist at Northwestern University, does not support more studies focusing on baldness as a marker for heart disease.
"Papers like this actually divert attention from the primary message," Greenland said. "About 80 to 90 percent of what we need to prevent heart disease is already known. The problem is that addressing those behaviors is something a lot of Americans don't want to do, so they are looking for other excuses."
Established risk factors for heart disease include hypertension, high blood pressure and cholesterol, and a sedentary lifestyle.

Now read the non-vegetarian ADA’s position on treatment and prevention of diseases.

SmashingIdols: B. Chimpanzees consume much more than 1.5% animal proteins - a figure actually relevent to Mountain Gorillas. Unless you are not counting insect matter (bodys, larvaee, eggs). Even then the 1.5 figure is incorrect.

I found another number. Still, that would be a good start for humans that think chimps eating meat makes it good for us.

Quote:

SCIENCE NEWS: Meat makes up about 3 percent of the chimps' diet.

SmashingIdols: D. Let's not bring anecdotal evidence into the picture, as you did above with the happy vegan guy in the UK…
This BBC report? <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_782000/782959.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_782000/782959.stm</a>

Quote:

The research's publication comes after controversy about claims that dairy-free diets prevent breast cancer. Earlier studies have suggested that the risk of prostate cancer is increased by high levels of the growth factor IGF-I. Other research has shown that prostate cancer rates are generally low in countries with a low consumption of meat and dairy products.
… Dr Tim Key, senior scientist at the charity, said: "Previous studies have shown that men with prostate cancer have higher levels of IGF-I and that even small differences in the circulating level are predictive of prostate cancer risk.
"Our study shows that the circulating level of IGF-I is different in vegan men than it is in non-vegans, including vegetarians.
"The lower levels of IGF-I found in vegan men might reduce their risk of prostate cancer."

Oh I just got it: you meant my joke on male functioning. Just attempting a joke.

AntiChris:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But are you aware that there is a darker side of soy?
--------------------------------------------------
quote:
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"If you only knew the power of the dark side" Darth Vader
LMAO, I'm playing Jedi Outcast---it's a hoot!

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: droolian ]

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: droolian ]</p>

SmashingIdols · 04-30-2002, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Whilst not dismissing their claims out of hand, I'd prefer to find a more obviously independent source of information.

Chris

So, check the references they list. Start with Lon White, University of Hawaii, and the Aging Study for more information about negative impacts of isaflavones.

I only posted a link to the site because in a quick search for a certain letter to the FDA I found they had it. It looks like they are pretty anti-soy though. I already am, having never seen this site before yesterday. It should be easy enough to verify the information they are giving.

Do a quick search on the web for Soy Toxins:

<a href="http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/truth_about_soy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/truth_about_soy.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths/myths_truths_soy.html" target="_blank">http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths/myths_truths_soy.html</a>

<a href="http://www.johnleemd.net/articles/soy-01.html" target="_blank">http://www.johnleemd.net/articles/soy-01.html</a>

hal9000 · 05-09-2002, 09:19 PM

Speaking of the darker side of our Vegan friends philosophy, I give you<a href="http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=77" target="_blank">The Mensa Flu!</a> Bon appetite!

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05-09-2002, 09:19 PM	#24
hal9000 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: just over your shoulder Posts: 146	Speaking of the darker side of our Vegan friends philosophy, I give you<a href="http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=77" target="_blank">The Mensa Flu!</a> Bon appetite!

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