FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-11-2003, 05:32 PM   #21
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Snyder,Texas,USA
Posts: 4,411
Default

Free access is available, maybe to White's paper, even, at Nature's website.
Coragyps is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 05:43 PM   #22
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
How do we know they are more accurately and completely dated? If they got the previous fossils wrong, what makes you think the new ones are right?
That is not the issue here at all. It is not a case of previous dates being wrong.

Radiometric dating is not merely sending some rock to the lab and getting some magic result.

Most radioactive dating techniques do not date sedimentary rocks which the fossil is in. Rather they date volcanic layers above and below them. This were a bit of luck comes in: say the area which to rock was formed went a million years without an eruption then one is not going to be able to get a very precise date via normal radiometric methods. Also not all volcanic rocks can be dated as easily as others: the uncertainty can vary. So on and so forth.
Valentine Pontifex is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 05:53 PM   #23
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Coragyps
Free access is available, maybe to White's paper, even, at Nature's website.
The "News and View" commentary article is here and is free. The actual technical papers require a subscription or a payment.

There is also a "Nature Science Update" (which is for the public and is not part of the journal) on the find here.
Valentine Pontifex is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:20 PM   #24
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Coast. Australia.
Posts: 5,455
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
Except my source is outside of the natural world, where those things can happen.
And how do you know that the source is outside of the natural world, exactly?
Doubting Didymus is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:37 PM   #25
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Just another hick from the sticks.
Posts: 1,108
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr.GH
I look forward to the creationist ritual "tapdance of denial." Has this been posted at any of their waterholes?
It has shown uo at Tweb, posted by 'boxer'. Not much action on it as yet, and I'm too lazy to comment tonight.

doov
Duvenoy is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:37 PM   #26
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 6th Circle of Hell
Posts: 1,093
Default

Shh! Don't ruin Magus' perfect world!

It seems to me Magus that you've gone the very common route of confusing the words precision and accuracy (Which my chemistry teacher drilled into our heads ). The measurements are very accurate, but not very precise. They are correct to the best of our knowledge, but that accuracy is in a range of a couple thousand years because there's no way to date it to an exact year. The dates for the newer bones are more precise because the volcanic rock around it can be measured a bit more exactly than before (notice the 30,000 year range for before, and the 6,000 year range for these). Being imprecise is far from being wrong. (And you can't twist imprecise into meaning the fossils are younger, because that would be inaccurate ) I hope that wasn't confusing.

EDIT: I love how they have precision as a definiton for accuracy on dictionary.com , but really, there is a difference...
Spaz is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:42 PM   #27
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Down South
Posts: 12,879
Default

Could this be considered an additional transitional given they are "nearly human"? That would help with the YECers over at Christian Forums. It's been posted but nobody is responding.
Viti is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 07:01 PM   #28
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Coast. Australia.
Posts: 5,455
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyShea
Could this be considered an additional transitional given they are "nearly human"? That would help with the YECers over at Christian Forums. It's been posted but nobody is responding.
It's only a transitional in the sense that all fossils are. It was once a different thing, and is on its way to being something else. As far as I can see, it doesn't represent a population that is the common ancestor of any two species, extant or otherwise, which is how transitional fossil is sometimes defined. As for creationists, who knows what they think transitional means.
Doubting Didymus is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 09:01 PM   #29
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,921
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
Except my source is outside of the natural world, where those things can happen.
Your source is a bunch of Bronze Age fables that are hopelessly outdated and even contradict basic laws of nature.
Hedwig is offline  
Old 06-11-2003, 09:14 PM   #30
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas
Posts: 29,689
Default

Originally posted by Magus55
Except my source is outside of the natural world, where those things can happen.

Except those things supposedly happened in the natural world.
Mageth is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:13 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.