Harumi

Happyboy,

I don't think JTVrocher ever claimed that he could use "magickal" skills to cure your father. All I think he was saying was that rituals can emphasize and help with appreciation of nature and reality and the like.

Of course, I still don't understand why he needs occult rituals to do that, but it's his life, and I'm not about to criticize him for it.

happyboy

which of course begs the following question: is the occult worth a damn, if it does nothing of true lasting value, and it's hidden in riddles so obtuse it would make the average man's head explode. if it's all symbolism, then why not find that symbolism in science or philosophy, instead of something worthless like the occult?

a very disgusted happyboy

cassiopeiae

has anyone here even read any occult based teachings? do any of you even know what the term 'occult' even means? i have read post after post about psychic and tarot readers....that is it. no one has even opened the door to the question "Why is it that belief in the occult persists?"

first of all, the occult is not just a bunch of 'psychics or tarot readers'...there is much study put into life and what makes up life. most occultists study philosophy, science, mathematics, religion, just about any subject you can name. most of the occultists today stemmed from Freemasonry and the Old Religion. the beliefs carried over from the Egyptians through Europe.

another misconception is the spell-work or ritual. first of all, any Christian or Catholic goes through ritual, just as the other religios sects and organizations. the occult is no different. the main difference of the occult and other religion is this. many religions are monotheistic. and just as many believe thier 'God' is the only God. occultists accept that there are many forms of God. that different people view God in different ways. there is understanding that no one is better than anyone else and that ultimately, mind over matter prevails. the power of positive thinking is the primary motivator, not a God. there is a view of equality and mass consciousness. the more one strives to tune into the world, the better it will be.

happyboy

then if it's only good for getting in tune with the universe, and it's so damn obtuse and hard to understand, why not just study cosmology or astronomy to "get in tune" with the universe? that's much easier, and none of it is dressed up in hocus-pocus nonsense.

happyboy

cassiopeiae

it envelops all aspects and puts 'insight' as to why things are the way they are, not just how. the occult provides a challenge for the mind and soul. it does not rely on answers simply because 'that's just the way they are', it pushes people to understand the world and how it works, and how everything fits together. the word 'occult' has a very mis-interpreted view, many people relate it to the word 'cult' ... which by definition means...

cult, n.

1. a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.

2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

5. a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.

6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

this being that most people relate it to def #4 or 5. occult is the study of metaphysics. it is the study of the why, not the how things are a certain way.

it is not that it is hard to understand, it is that, like philosophy, it is hard to articulate sometimes. it is like trying to draw love.

Supergirl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cassiopeiae
[B]has anyone here even read any occult based teachings? do any of you even know what the term 'occult' even means? i have read post after post about psychic and tarot readers....that is it. no one has even opened the door to the question "Why is it that belief in the occult persists?"

Supergirl - You have obviously not read all the posts! There are three pagans (two scpetics and the person who have to show ID to get hold of incence) that responded. Myself being a sceptic one.

After reading your post it seems that you have a very generalist view of the occult. Occult means that which is hidden, because it can not be explained in logical terms or by scientific data. Why are people still into it? You have a clue? Why do people cling to notions like tarot - 52 pieces of card board can predict the future? The notion that you can conjure and summon a deity - beware of Hecate, she is a bitch and will put her wolfs on you? The notion that you can have a chat with the dead? The notion that you can do "past life regression"?

An occult philosopher is no differant to an atheist philosopher, they are both searching for the meaning of life. But why believe in something that was created before the knowledge to understand it was available?:banghead:

cassiopeiae

i have read all of the posts, and yes, i noticed there are pagans. i have a very straight forward view of the occult, my primary belief lies in hermetic philosophy. i was generalizing because it is so broad of a topic. it is the only way. people use tarot for many reasons, it can be a 'mirror to the soul', a tool of difination, a meditation tool, can help to open the minds eye...the way i look at tarot is it is a tool for bringing information trapped in the suconscious - out, where your conscious mind can view it and act accordingly.

yes, occult does mean 'anything that is hidden' it also means the study of things that are hidden, and the study of metaphysics...basically it opens up the door of the unknown. people hang to the occult because there are many doors to unlock in this world. the fact that *we* don't use the entirity of our brain, the fact that the majority of us believe in a higher energy/entity/being....most occultists, believe that there is more to life than what we read in science books, there is a belief that everything in the universe is connected living or beyond, incarnate or spirit. it is a realization of utilizing and understanging life as a whole. not just physical, spiritual, or mental, but all in unity and balance. people use deities as a way of projecting and accomplishing a task, want, need, thought. it is a way of sending out the message, instead of letting it run circles in the mind. to conjure a deity is a way of asking for help, and creating the right energy for the task at hand. one wouldn't call a plumber to fix the car...

Infidelettante

quote:
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Originally posted by happyboy
JTVrocher, i am waiting with held breath for your answer. your magickal skills are the keys to curing my father.
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Hi Harumi. I was being sarcastic about the incense BTW.

Mine is a celebratory religion that revels in the body and in nature. It is wholly materialistic for me. I have no true supernatural beliefs though at times I may use terms that make me sound as if I do.

We modern humans have been separated from nature and the Cosmos by our technology and science. This is not to say these are bad, but that, if we let them they come between us and the natural environment we evolved in.

I think this is a source of much of the psychcological ills of our age. Our brains may still , in some small way, need the tribe or the small groups that walked the savanas thousand upon thousands of years ago.

What I have found is a path that allows me to participate in the creative process in ways that celebrate nature, the universe, and me as a corporeal being. My rituals and magic are tools to achieve states of receptiveness to knowledge hidden in my subconscious and to, by the use of mythology and symbolism bring that knowledge *up* to the conscious levels. They are tools to explore my inner landscape and allow me access to ways of understanding myself that are enjoyable, interesting, and fun.

When I was in Bible college the president of the school was fond of telling us that the word religion means *to bind* re-ligio. He would say that Christianity was not a religion because it breaks the bonds of sin and sets us free.

I think of my religion as a practice that re-attaches me to the world, nature, my fellow beings, and to myself. I use magic and ritual to focus on particular problems or difficulties I face. I use them to concentrate on character traits I want to reinforce or change. I often use objects or symbols to represent emotions, people, events, conditions, times, thoughts, ideas, desires, needs,...well, you get the idea. What I want to say is that none of those objects or symbols have powers or meanings other than those I give them. The only power I know in my religion is me.

As I said, mine is a celebratory religion. It celebrates this life, this time, this world and looks to no other life, time, or world. It is a religion of the here and now. I often go into my back yard on the full moon and sit among my wifes plantings and garden and thank Goddess for her blessings. I celebrate all she gives me. See, sometimes I sound like I believe in her. Don't I?

JT

Calzaer

Aquila ka Hecate:
Science couldn't bring back her brain either... but I noticed you didn't say

Happyboy:
WTF is your problem? Seriously? You make it sound like a Kabbalist killed your dog or something. You're not half this vile with any other theist.

Why don't you mind your own goddamn business about how I chose to get in tune with the universe? Is that really so hard? Is this Happyboy's Inquisition bullshit absolutley necessary for your continued mental health?

You are not the benchmark for human achievement. If you find something hard to understand, it doesn't mean everyone else in the world does too.

Infidelettante

Blessings to you and yours, Aquil ka Hecate. Wisdom adorns you.

JT