Sauron

Having one's land invaded by outsiders from Europe kinda put them in a bad mood. I can't imagine why.

In any event, the events you are describing are rather ancient history, and not really relevant to the present day. The three countries you speak of, as well as the situation on the ground, have totally changed. Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel now, and they have exchanged ambassadors, economic ties, etc. Jordan is in no shape to mount even the feeblest of attacks.

Well actually, the earlier set of occupied territories, in 1948, was in the area of the Palestinian state. But those lands were unilaterally absorbed by Israel, as part of the plan to create a zionist state.


Recognition was not the key here. Jordan recognized Israel, too, as a by-product of the Oslo accords. But Israel never returned the West Bank to Jordan. So much for your theory.

Sauron

Israel has never sworn off violence. Quite the opposite. The Israelis have always said publicly and without any ambiguity that they reserve the right to use force.

The problem is that Israel doesn't want anyone else to reserve that same right. So the situation continues.

Loren Pechtel

That map (which is very hard to read on my system at least) seems to be addressing the *CURRENT* situation. How do you draw any conclusions about 48-67 from it??

Loren Pechtel

So? They were living peacefully on the land before 67. Their allies attacked, for the *THIRD* time.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Jat
US cops are normally capable of catching the bad guys--the bad guys don't have extensive networks of observers and lots of armed guards they can call on at a moment's notice.

Do they really have to when so many cops are on the take as it is?

Some of the top bad guys can be hard to catch but that's a matter of keeping things secret, not their ability to get away from forces actually after them.

There are no freedom fighters in Palestine.

That is your opinion.

As others have said, freedom fighters attack the opposing force. Terrorists attack the opposing civilians.

Note, however, that you are admitting I'm right.

Why would you say that, Information Minister?

You redefined them as freedom fighters instead of terrorists--but in doing so you accepted the initial claim.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by slept2long
The arabs were wrong for invading. The Israeli's were just as wrong for their invasion and occupation of Palestinian land. They should return it yesterday. Then we'll deal with their security because as it stands now their security problem is irritated by their continuing occupation.

Why should they return it without a peace treaty with the opponents they took it from?

Egypt signed a peace treaty and got their land back. The others have never seriously negotiated even.

Loren Pechtel

Israel has honored many cease-fires. The terrorists always break them.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Sauron
First you deny that the act (expansion of Israeli territory) ever occurred.

Now you admit that it did occur, but that it was OK since it was a reaction to an invasion.

Israel did not take territory until 19 years and 3 wars later.

Let's remember that the people being screwed here today, in the here and now, aren't the invaders of 1967. They're the people caught in between.

Yes--pawns of the Arabs. At least 90% of the plight of the Palestinians lays on Arab doorsteps.

Loren Pechtel

Swearing off violence is a permanent issue. Since there is no indication their opposition is quitting of course they haven't sworn off violence.

They have, however, honored cease-fires. Pretty soon the terrorists have regrouped and they break the cease-fire. At that point of course Israel starts shooting again.

Sauron

Wow. Several things wrong with that comment:

1. It was the Israelis who were the first to attack in 1967, not the Arabs.

2. An attack is a valid response to an act of theft. Your position assumes that the attack was the action, when in reality it was the re-action to a previous event.

3. The Arab countries were not "allies" of the Palestinians, in any meaningful sense - there was no military alliance or joint agreement to coordinate military operations. They were simply Arabs and also Muslims.

4. To try and punish the Palestinians for what the surrounding Arabs did is nonsense. The surrounding Arab countries are the ones that Israel fought in the war. Yet the Palestinians living on the land are the ones who are suffering.