winstonjen

Your actions will always be futile since you will never prove God, or get rid of humanism.

Evidence like... (credit to Missus_gumby - http://www.geocities.com/missus_gumby/praise.htm)

for evil.

the Crusades.

disease.

child molesting priests.

the Spanish Inquisition.

those funny bishops hats.

the mass murder of early Christians - by the Christian emporers of ancient Rome.

creating Satan.

four conflicting versions of the resurrection.

the sexual mutilation of eight day-old babies.

the lack of evidence of any gods existence.

And lots more!

RED DAVE

From Magus55:

When you say, "I see evidence," you are, essentially, saying that your subjective experience leads you to this conclusion. If my subjective experience leds me to a different conclusion (and it does), you are left merely with an impression with is unverifiable.

Same deal with faith. I, too, have experiences that are just if ied by faith. However, mine contradict yours, which invalidates faith as a criterion.

Your experience of God is a feeling.

RED DAVE

WinAce

No human knows what occurs in the subatomic world either, but the principles used to infer one are just as valid for investigation of past events.

When you come to a canyon and see a large chunk missing from the top, a chunk that would exactly fit the hole lying on the ground, rolling marks on the canyon's side and smushed squirrels and other animals arranged in a straight line from canyon to boulder, you can safely conclude the boulder fell and rolled down.

If, on the other hand, you postulate an exceedingly unlikely, unparsimonious and unverifiable series of events (with no particular unifying theme) only because of your undemonstrable beliefs (such as "aliens mutilated all those animals" instead of the obvious), then prop that up with a new ad hoc hypothesis to rationalize away each new observation that contradicts it to protect your view from falsification, you've spit on almost each of the very principles science is founded on.

Whatever. Genesis, however, isn't his account. It's an obvious ancient Hebrew apologetic directed at the (presumably false) Assyrian and Babylonian gods.

Let me put it this way - if, at some future point, they took the message of the Left Behind series and included it in a *new* updated Bible, would that mean the events in it were literally true?

Genesis 1 describes the simplistic creation of a flat earth covered by a sky dome, i.e. the cosmology believed at the time (contemporary Babylonian sources expound on it). It doesn't mention bacteria or virii. It misses the other planets of the solar system.

The ancient Hebrews could be forgiven for folkloreish beliefs that 50-60 "kinds" of animal were kept alive on a big boat while the world was flooded to destroy the evildoers. They didn't know of much outside a limited portion of the Middle East. You, on the other hand, have little such excuse.

Oh, and just for the record, you're worshipping a being as real as the imaginary friends kids have.

Magus55

You're right, I can't prove God as a fact. And I'm not trying to get rid of humanism. Your rejection of God is between you and Him. You will have no excuses when you stand before Him. My only purpose is to spread His word and Truth . Everyone will bow to God at Judgement. The question is, will you be bowing as a Child of God, or an enemy?

Magus55

No, its not just my subjective experience. Its evidence that billions of people have found and God confirms the evidence to the believer.

Magus55

Now, are you positive that the boulder rolled down, or is it possible that someone fabricated the scene to make it appear like the boulder rolled down? Thats the problem. You make an observation, and assume that what ever caused what you are observing is in fact what happened, when it very well may not be. If the supernatural is real ( which we will say is, otherwise we wouldn't be questioning this), its highly possible that the observations you make today, have been completely distorted by the largest catastrophe in history - one that literally destroyed the former world.

The environment/weather/disaster etc. changes the world, including the amount of carbon or radioactive isotopes present in a certain material. Scientists are always changing dates, and many dates of rocks have been millions of years off. So why should I accept it as the truth when scientists don't even know whats true? The Dr. who discovered Carbon dating doesn't even hold it as accurate past a few thousand years, and He has yet to find any human remains or items from civilizations, older than 5000 years. So if the founder of one of the most common dating methods, doesn't agree with million year old records, or even 10s of thousand year old records, why should I accept any date given by humans?




No, Genesis 1 doesn't describe a flat earth, you just have no clue how to read and understand scripture.

Jack the Bodiless

Neither. The Biblical God does not exist.

This is the point you keep missing, Magus. The BIBLE describes specific acts by God which would have left very obvious evidence if they had actually occurred, but which is simply not there.

Therefore, everything you say about God being "outside the natural world" is irrelevant. The Biblical God's stated actions are supposedly very much within the natural world. But they didn't happen.
Nobody has ever found any evidence of the BIBLICAL God. Most of those "billions" simply believe what they've been told. Others have a "gut feeling" which they've interpreted as being from God, Allah, Vishnu or whatever.

Jack the Bodiless

That can only apply to CARBON dating. Not radiometric dating of ROCKS.
Pure bunk. Carbon dating is useful up to about 50,000 years, and human remains go WAY back before that.
What fantasy is this?
Yes, it does. So does the rest of the Bible, right through to Revelation. You just have no clue how to read and understand scripture.

Magus55

Prove it.

The supernatural events maybe not, but they are verified by those who were there. And there is plenty of archaeological evidence for Biblical events and places, including Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jack the Bodiless

The fossil record proves it.

Actually, Biblical contradictions also prove it, but this isn't the forum to discuss those.
There was NOBODY there. They're just STORIES.

Do you think that all claims in storybooks are verified by the storybook characters described as being there?
And there is plenty of evidence for places in Greek myth too, such as Athens, Delphi and Troy.

This signifies nothing.