Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tarnaak · 05-29-2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rainbow walking
Hi Hero,
As a recently deconverted christian I can tell you that such a belief system cannot be replaced over-night. But if you believe something to be fake, christianity for example, what joy do you imagine could be derived from pretension? There is no joy to be found in hypocrisy.

And why do you think christians are happier than atheists? Sure it takes a while to shake yourself loose from the baggage of such beliefs but if you are genuinely dedicated to truth you will and you will discover that it is no more difficult to be at peace and happy as an atheist as it is a christian. Do you think christians really believe they no longer fear death and the anxieties of an unclear future? If they say different they are lying to you and to themselves. Ask them if they really know what God's will for their existence is? I bet you'll never find a christian who can give you a direct definitive answer. Why? because they've never heard such a being give them any such direction.

God's will for our exsistance is to love him

Mageth · 05-29-2003, 12:32 PM

Why would an omnimax god require us itty bitty humans to love him? Perhaps he's omninarcissistic as well...

lugotorix · 05-29-2003, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
Faced with the death of my child and with the knowledge I have on the effectiveness of prayer, I had no solace from religion. Was the solace Christianity offered my wife a placebo? Is that meaningful? Would Buddism have offered anything better? Or am I better off putting my faith in the doctor? I've been saying that an easy answer is medical science as opposed to any religion. The promise of god is nothing compared to the promise of a doctor.

The point Aradia has been making is that medical science versus religion is a false dichotomy. Only in certain brain-damaged sects of Christianity is it even an issue. For most other religions, including most other sects of Christianity, the two are not in opposition.

As a Buddhist, I'd deal with the doctor for healing. How I react to whatever happens is where my religious beliefs come into play. I suspect most Christians would have the same attitude.

lugotorix

SecularFuture · 05-29-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Why would an omnimax god require us itty bitty humans to love him? Perhaps he's omninarcissistic as well...

HEHEHEHE!!

Aradia · 05-29-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
This is a discussion about having a meaningful life without fear, in hope, and happiness. Just person to person, which would you rather have in the face of death, medical science or religion (which ever religion makes you happy)? Faced with the death of my child and with the knowledge I have on the effectiveness of prayer, I had no solace from religion. Was the solace Christianity offered my wife a placebo? Is that meaningful? Would Buddism have offered anything better? Or am I better off putting my faith in the doctor? I've been saying that an easy answer is medical science as opposed to any religion. The promise of god is nothing compared to the promise of a doctor.

Medical science does not make life more meaningful.

Why must religion and science be mutually exclusive? Why must one or the other have all the answers? Isn't it possible that religion has its purpose, science has its purpose, and that the two are unrelated and can coexist? Why the animosity?

Aradia · 05-29-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
Actually, that's a very interesting question. We're stranded on a desert island. I'm a sedistic atheist doctor. You've offended me with your blathering about Jesus (see I excluded you Aradia). You're dying. I can save you. I say to you "convince me you have renounced your religion, or I'll let you die." What would you do? These Christians come here and pester us with responsibility for our free will choices, like we have a choice. Here you have a choice to chose the doctor or God. How many people have enough faith in their religion to die for it?

I would explain what Jesus taught, how Jesus can help people, and that even though Jesus may not be able to help you, he might be able to help me in a way that medical science cannot, so there is no purpose to renouncing my religion.

I would then probably die, because you were so full of hatred and self-righteousness that you didn't care about helping your fellow man.

Aradia · 05-29-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Why would an omnimax god require us itty bitty humans to love him? Perhaps he's omninarcissistic as well...

*grin*

lugotorix · 05-29-2003, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Why would an omnimax god require us itty bitty humans to love him? Perhaps he's omninarcissistic as well...

Well, look at the world he supposedly created. He's obviously got some competency and self-esteem issues....

lugotorix

BadBadBad · 05-29-2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lugotorix
The point Aradia has been making is that medical science versus religion is a false dichotomy. Only in certain brain-damaged sects of Christianity is it even an issue. For most other religions, including most other sects of Christianity, the two are not in opposition.

As a Buddhist, I'd deal with the doctor for healing. How I react to whatever happens is where my religious beliefs come into play. I suspect most Christians would have the same attitude.

lugotorix

I understand what you're saying. I think I'm saying something different. I'm not talking about the effectiveness of prayer as compared to medicine in curing illness. I'm talking about hope. I'm talking about meaning in life. I'm saying that medical science has done more than can be fathomed through the fantasy of religion. I'm saying for you to stop hoping and finding meaning in life through the fantasy of buddism or christianity. Go and hug a child. That's life. That's happiness.

I've been in the hospital. I've seen my wife and people with my daughter on their prayer list. I had a choice to ease my heart through the false hope of religion. I weighed the possibilities. I chose to find hope and solace in the doctor and hospital. The doctor assured me that she would be ok. That was real. I saw the blood transfusion going into her arm. I saw the dialysis machine cleansing her blood while her kidneys healed. I saw the color return to her skin. I saw the look on the nurses faces when the blood work started to come back with improvements. I saw urine showing up in her catheder. That was real. My wife saw the same thing and attributed it to god and prayer.

I'm saying religion is nothing but a sugar pill and there are lots of cures for life's fears and calamities that provide more hope than the fantasy of religion. Medical science is just one of them. Fantasy can seem very real, but it's not.

BadBadBad · 05-29-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aradia
Medical science does not make life more meaningful.

Try to tell that to my daughter. She would have been dead at two. Ask her if the last three years of her life have been meaningful.

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05-29-2003, 12:32 PM	#52
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Why would an omnimax god require us itty bitty humans to love him? Perhaps he's omninarcissistic as well...

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