Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BibleBelted · 07-02-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Is there anything left that matters?

By Joan Chittister,OSB

This is what I don't understand: All of a sudden nothing seems to matter.

First, they said they wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive." But they didn't get him. So now they tell us that it doesn't matter. Our mission is greater than one man.

Then they said they wanted Saddam Hussein, "dead or alive." He's apparently alive but we haven't got him yet, either. However, President Bush told reporters recently, "It doesn't matter. Our mission is greater than one man."

Finally, they told us that we were invading Iraq to destroy their weapons of mass destruction. Now they say those weapons probably don't exist. Maybe never existed. Apparently that doesn't matter either.

Except that it does matter.

<snip>

The unspoken truth is that either as a people we were misled, or we were lied to, about the real reason for this war. Either we made a huge � and unforgivable � mistake, an arrogant or ignorant mistake, or we are swaggering around the world like a blind giant, flailing in all directions while the rest of the world watches in horror or in ridicule.

If Bill Clinton's definition of "is" matters, surely this matters. If a president's sex life matters, surely a president's use of global force against some of the weakest people in the world matters. If a president's word in a court of law about a private indiscretion matters, surely a president's word to the community of nations and the security of millions of people matters.

And if not, why not? If not, surely there is something as wrong with us as citizens, as thinkers, as Christians as there must be with some facet of the government. If wars that the public says are wrong yesterday � as over 70% of U.S. citizens did before the attack on Iraq � suddenly become "right" the minute the first bombs drop, what kind of national morality is that?

What next? The Southern Baptists making peace signs?

I got this from a neo-con board, BTW. The squirming and squealing of the brownshirts over there is just delectable.

Dominus Paradoxum · 07-02-2003, 01:09 PM

Catholics can actually be pretty liberal on some issues. I know that the pope was against the war, so I would be suprised if a lot of the clergy are too.

King Rat · 07-02-2003, 01:16 PM

Let's see, I'm thinking of placard slogans right now;

NOBODY DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED!

BLOWJOB OR SNOWJOB, WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE?

WMD FOUND! CHECK YOUR LOCAL U.S. MILITARY INSTALLATION!

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS!

Ab_Normal · 07-02-2003, 01:19 PM

My grandfather was a Roman Catholic and a 30's-era leftie who staunchly maintained that a person couldn't be Catholic and vote Republican.

Mageth · 07-02-2003, 01:22 PM

Perhaps some Catholics are afraid that, after Bushcroft finishes off the Moslems, they may target them next.

BibleBelted · 07-02-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ab_Normal
My grandfather was a Roman Catholic and a 30's-era leftie who staunchly maintained that a person couldn't be Catholic and vote Republican.

That's funny. The last church I attended maintained you couldn't be a Christian and vote Democrat. That's part of the reason I'm now a proud atheist.

TollHouse · 07-02-2003, 02:52 PM

I can't say I'm too surprised. Most Catholics I know are quite liberal.

jman0904 · 07-02-2003, 03:25 PM

Apparently at a Bilderberg conference a couple of years ago (Right before Afghan/Iraq wars), Kissinger at the conference discussed the need for a stabilised western influence in the middle east, preferebly by the installation of a western power as the head government of an unpopular country, and also for issues of securing oil interests as to bypass OPEC or to secure a supply.
Someone smuggled a copy out of the transcripts out of the conference. My friend has the link and a copy of the transcripts, but he just went to the beach. I'll try to find them.

RLV · 07-02-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominus Paradoxum
Catholics can actually be pretty liberal on some issues. I know that the pope was against the war, so I would be suprised if a lot of the clergy are too.

Catholic hierarchy is usually quite conservative, the current one being a strong example.

The rank and file, both clergy and believers, is very varied. There are of all colours, from the very conservative to the very liberal. In general they are more conservative that the mainstream (at least here) in sexual-moral matters, but not necessarily so in socio-political matters.

In the case of the invasion of Iraq, as the Pope opposed it the hierarchy followed his steps (a bit akwardly in some cases) so most of the catholics opposed the war.

RLV

Cheiron · 07-02-2003, 03:55 PM

No offense but I think you might be over estimating the importance of what the pope says to a fair chunk of catholics. I know that I have met few if any catholics that take the pope as anything more than an old guy in rome who happens to be the head of the church.

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07-02-2003, 01:09 PM	#2
Dominus Paradoxum Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,000	Catholics can actually be pretty liberal on some issues. I know that the pope was against the war, so I would be suprised if a lot of the clergy are too.

07-02-2003, 01:16 PM	#3
King Rat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,855	Let's see, I'm thinking of placard slogans right now; NOBODY DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED! BLOWJOB OR SNOWJOB, WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE? WMD FOUND! CHECK YOUR LOCAL U.S. MILITARY INSTALLATION! THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS!

07-02-2003, 01:19 PM	#4
Ab_Normal Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,842	My grandfather was a Roman Catholic and a 30's-era leftie who staunchly maintained that a person couldn't be Catholic and vote Republican.

07-02-2003, 01:22 PM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Perhaps some Catholics are afraid that, after Bushcroft finishes off the Moslems, they may target them next.

07-02-2003, 02:52 PM	#7
TollHouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 8,745	I can't say I'm too surprised. Most Catholics I know are quite liberal.

07-02-2003, 03:25 PM	#8
jman0904 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oregon, the new Least Religious State in America Posts: 453	Apparently at a Bilderberg conference a couple of years ago (Right before Afghan/Iraq wars), Kissinger at the conference discussed the need for a stabilised western influence in the middle east, preferebly by the installation of a western power as the head government of an unpopular country, and also for issues of securing oil interests as to bypass OPEC or to secure a supply. Someone smuggled a copy out of the transcripts out of the conference. My friend has the link and a copy of the transcripts, but he just went to the beach. I'll try to find them.

07-02-2003, 03:55 PM	#10
Cheiron Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 371	No offense but I think you might be over estimating the importance of what the pope says to a fair chunk of catholics. I know that I have met few if any catholics that take the pope as anything more than an old guy in rome who happens to be the head of the church.

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