gilly54

"When you look at the stars and the galaxy, you feel that you are not just from any particular piece of land, but from the solar system," Chawla said in a 1998 interview with the newspaper India Today.


The above quote from Dr. Chawla doesn't sound Judeo-Christian to me...


I grieve for the dead, my sympathies for the families, and Bush and his handlers are still insensitive assholes for bringing up his religion, as head of a secular nation, in his speeches.

Nickle

Larry King interviewed Max Lucado, some fundy author and preacher from San Antonio, and asked him how god allowed this to happen. He gave the usual dance "we can't know god."

I was wondering why they were spending so much time on the god stuff. During the press conference earlier today some woman from CBS Austin asked how important god was to the astronauts. I forget the exact response. (I was listening on NPR and my signal fades in and out)

As for Bush's speech. At least be consistent:
That's not an attempt at humor. If Bush's intent was to console the families, this was a poor attempt. He's just trying to get religion into his speech.

If one of my christian friends (and I think there is only one) died, I wouldn't be spouting off existentialist rantings to his family. I would find the best thing to say about him, my views on religion aside.

DamagedGoods

You know, if Bush's remarks had been on-the-spot, unprepared remarks, I might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. As a former fundie, I must say that I understand why he would say such things...5 years ago, I would have said them myself, because I had built my thought processes on top of assumptions and biases that caused me to use everything as an "opportunity to minister." And even if it offended somebody, I would most likely have been completely oblivious to it because of those biases.

But these were not impromptu remarks. This was a crafted speech. And, to me, that says that Bush and his handlers either (a) chose to use the opportunity to inject religion or (b) they all have the fundy-like outlook I described. Either way, it just irks me.

DamagedGoods

I was listening to the radio earlier, and they played Reagan's speech about the Challenger accident. I went and found the text of it just to make sure I heard it right (http://www.startribune.com/stories/1389/43114.html).

The only mention of God is that bit at the end about ' "slipped the surly bonds of Earth" to "touch the face of God." ' The majority of it is focused on the spirit (and cost) of exploration and discovery, and on human achievement. I could even be persuaded to take the statement about God at the end to be largely metaphorical; even if that wasn't the intent, it certainly doesn't come close to what Bush said yesterday.

Amazing...the favorite president of many religious and right-wing folk managed to deliver a speech about a tragedy just like the one yesterday, and yet it was 99% secular. I have a little more respect for Mr Reagan than before. I may disagree with some of his politics, but at least he and/or his handlers had enough class to give a respectful tribute to the shuttle crew.

Arrowman

Agreed

http://www.cre8tivegroup.com/creativ...nes_magee.html

Nickle

I just replying to agree.

SecularFuture

Toto,
Grrr… Out of respect for the astronauts and their families, I hope everyone aboard was religious in some aspect. It is so damn disrespectful for one to try and put everyone into the category they, personally, see most fit! Bush is such an a$$! His ‘State of the Union’ is probably what put me into this rage I'm in! The only person I’ve heard, so far, include talk about the mourning of the non-Christian citizens, and/or mention the word ‘atheist’, was Andy Rooney of 60 Minutes. Rooney is SO MUCH smarter than that our stupid a$$, fundie, president! He understands the fact that there are many kinds of people in our world, and not just one! He understands the fact that all humans are capable of feeling sadness, and all Americans are capable of being patriotic, and not just the CHRISTIANS!! The sooner Christianity goes away, the BETTER!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60mi...main3419.shtml
(you may have to wait a day or two for the update)

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Godbert
Well said!

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Fr.Andrew
Religion helps people avoid facing reality. The truth is that the 7 heroes aboard Columbia are gone, and will be gone FOREVER! There is no happy little heaven where they are waiting for their children! None of them, like all who have died before them, will ever be seen again! Why do you think religion, with all of its farfetched mythological concopts and contradictions, hasn't destroyed itself yet? Because people fear chaos. They fear a world without a governor. They fear truth.

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“A self-described "secular Jew," Ramon felt called to honor his heritage and religion during the mission by eating some kosher food and looking for a way to practice the Sabbath.”-
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ew_030114.html
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/isra...ilanramon.html
http://www.acaje.org/Israel/IlanRamon.shtml
http://www.onejerusalem.org/ItemDeta...sh&ItemID=1335

fando,
Nice Scooby-Doo detective work! Very nice!

So - it is true then.... One of the members onboard Columbia was, indeed, an ATHEIST!!!

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cricket
EXACTLY!!!

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fromtheright,
Like you, secularists demand some RESPECT!!! And most of us find it very disrespectful when someone tries to PUSH their concepts onto a person who may disagree with those concepts.

OUT OF RESPECT FOR THOSE WHO DIED, WE NEED TO FIRST CONSIDER THEIR BELIEFS AND BACKGROUNDS BEFORE WE START QUOTING FROM OUR OWN PERSONAL SCRIPTURE!!!

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CALDONIA,
Beautifully said! Religion is confusing and tends to contradict itself, doesn’t it? Why are the religious sad? They should be happy. The astronauts didn’t “die”. They only moved on to a happy place full of flying elves and pixies, right?

Jamie_L

Bush is a deeply religious man. I respect his right to be that way, and I respect his intentions to be a moral person. I really don't get up in arms over a "God Bless America" here or there at the end of speeches.

What bothers me about Bush is his tendency to make more than passing reference to his religion in national speeches. The State of the Union actually set me up to be sensative to this speech. In both cases, there were fairly lengthy segments of the pre-planned speeches dedicated to a sermon-like preaching. That is, it wasn't merely an expression of his beliefs, but an instruction to all that this is how things are. Really, it felt very much like a church sermon in those particular parts of those speeches. That, I feel, is inappropriate when coming from a government official acting in his official capacity.

Like others, this is not top-most on my mind in the midst of all this, but since it's the topic of the thread, this is what I think.

If an atheist government official were to dedicate a similar amount of speech time to comments about the end of life, the meaning of ceasing to exist, and the importance of remembering that no super-natural force is dictating or forcing these tragic events upon us, he'd be politically lynched.

Jamie

simian

I have purposely been avoiding most of the coverage of the shuttle disaster. I dislike the sensationalization of distasters to boost ratings, or broadcasting anything so the station can appear to be doing something. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

One of the first items I saw on the shuttle was Bush's blatherings. I have not listened to the entire speech so am not fully informed. However, what I did see made me angry. Here is a terrible event and Bush is using it to promote his religion.

For those of you who post here and are theists, let me pose a simple question to you: if Bush had said the crew were now with Jesus, would the Jewish community be justified in being offended?

Simian

4th Generation Atheist

That's pretty much exactly what happened.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Feb2.html

As to his claiming that his "Creator" "named" the stars, I noticed that too right away. The guy doesn't even know his own "mind".