Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 07-09-2003, 03:56 PM

What makes you think her own house was not in order?

Anyway, I thought the implication in the movie was that she prayed sincerely and selflessly for Bruce. As best I recall, there was no hint of her trying to score points off God, despite what you wrote.

Helen

Steven Carr · 07-09-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
if i pray for you without putting my own house in order, i am seeking God on my own terms. like the rapist looking for points by asking God's mercy for his victims.

I think fatherphil is sure that his own house in order.

Will God refuse mercy to a rapist's victims unless the rapist truly repents?

fatherphil · 07-09-2003, 04:27 PM

she came out of a shack up relationship unrepentant save for the possible waste of 5 years. she was not seeking, at least in the prayer that i heard, God's direction and will in her own life. it no big deal, but just one of those judeo-christian things.

my own house needs work and some days are better than others, but i'm striving towards the goal. but thanks for ask steven.

as far as mercy for any victims, it comes regardless of the assailants wishes.

Steven Carr · 07-09-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
she came out of a shack up relationship unrepentant save for the possible waste of 5 years. she was not seeking, at least in the prayer that i heard, God's direction and will in her own life. it no big deal, but just one of those judeo-christian things.

my own house needs work and some days are better than others, but i'm striving towards the goal. but thanks for ask steven.

as far as mercy for any victims, it comes regardless of the assailants wishes.

So the rapist prays for something and God grants it?

Is your own house in better order than the woman in the film?

If your house is not in order, are you seeking God on your own terms? (God imposes conditions on those who seek him, it seems)

orac · 07-09-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
yes the girls prayers were selfless, but the problem was she was never seeking God's will and desire for her life. she somehow wanted God to work on her own terms.

That's so awful!

That evil monster completely failed to realise that she must voluntarily give up her own free will and serve her owner with complete unquestioning obedience and devotion. (After re-reading that, I've decided I'm going to leave that sentence exactly the way it is. After all, apparantly God created us, he owns us, and he can treat us the same way a 2 year old treats china dinner plates if he really wants to, and anyone who questions that is obviously evil.)

Can anyone imagine a better life than one where you only do what God tells you to do? Can anyone imagine a worse crime than having any desire other than the desire to obey?

It just makes me sick to the stomach to know that some people actually dare to commit the terrible crime of not being slaves to God.

Er, are there any christians care to explain why free will is so great when the only choice God will tolerate is choosing absolute unquestioning obedience?

I am amused by one thing, though: if your only prayer is "hey, God! do whatever you want, I'm not evil enough to ask you to do anything" then no matter what happens, you get to call it "god's will" and you're fine. If you start beliving the Bible then you reach that bit where Jesus says "ask and it shall be given" and you dare ask for things, then you might find that you don't actually get them - and we can't have people questioning the holy book.

Fortunately, we have people who can explain that Jesus "really" meant that you should only ask for things that God wants you to have, and anyone who asks for something and doesn't get it obviously isn't a True Christian. It's sad that the apostles forgot to write down Jesus's explanation for his obscure quotes, but I guess you just get that sort of absent minded negligence when you're worrying about spreading the word of god. It's quite odd, really. I would have thought they'ld obey Jesus, and actually do what he told them, but they had to go and cut corners.

fatherphil · 07-10-2003, 11:04 AM

so then you would have God grant jim baker's or jimmy swaggart's wishes while they where both committing adultery and whatever other malmaleficence they may have been involved in.

and in comparing my house to the woman's, i guess the major difference is that i try to avoid sin as opposed to being indifferent to it.

HelenM · 07-10-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
so then you would have God grant jim baker's or jimmy swaggart's wishes while they where both committing adultery and whatever other malmaleficence they may have been involved in.

and in comparing my house to the woman's, i guess the major difference is that i try to avoid sin as opposed to being indifferent to it.

I don't see that you have grounds to conclude she is 'indifferent to sin' simply because the movie implies she's engaging in one particular sin. We've already covered that the movie doesn't present "Bible-believing Christianity", so it's not surprising that it doesn't push the morality of Bible-believing Christians, per se.

There are probably some things you do, which you do not consider sinful, which other people do consider sinful. Would you say they would be correct to conclude you are 'indifferent to sin' simply because you engage in one thing that they think is sin and you don't?

Helen

fatherphil · 07-11-2003, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
There are probably some things you do, which you do not consider sinful, which other people do consider sinful. Would you say they would be correct to conclude you are 'indifferent to sin' simply because you engage in one thing that they think is sin and you don't?

Helen

yes they would be correct in regards to their belief system and be justifiably incredulous if i were to appeal to their god in such a state.

i opened with the statement that the god presented in this movie was a secularized version.

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07-09-2003, 03:56 PM	#21
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	What makes you think her own house was not in order? Anyway, I thought the implication in the movie was that she prayed sincerely and selflessly for Bruce. As best I recall, there was no hint of her trying to score points off God, despite what you wrote. Helen

07-09-2003, 04:27 PM	#23
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	she came out of a shack up relationship unrepentant save for the possible waste of 5 years. she was not seeking, at least in the prayer that i heard, God's direction and will in her own life. it no big deal, but just one of those judeo-christian things. my own house needs work and some days are better than others, but i'm striving towards the goal. but thanks for ask steven. as far as mercy for any victims, it comes regardless of the assailants wishes.

07-10-2003, 11:04 AM	#26
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	so then you would have God grant jim baker's or jimmy swaggart's wishes while they where both committing adultery and whatever other malmaleficence they may have been involved in. and in comparing my house to the woman's, i guess the major difference is that i try to avoid sin as opposed to being indifferent to it.

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