stretch

(Western mono)theists view God as a who as much as a what .... and defining a who is more difficult than defining a what.


OK ... the proposed definition makes it sound like a mind that is missing something. Most theists would spin it around and say that humans have minds and are constrained by having to operate within the confines of a body in a material world.

Completely agreed.

I wouldn't say that the traits are assigned completely arbitrarily. Are you familiar with any scholastic metaphysics? I don't agree with much of it, and I don't consider it 'science' by any stretch of the imagination, but I also wouldn't consider it completely arbitrary.

Randy X

Probably the biggest problem, is how theists define God?

Some define a certain way, and others give their own subjective comments on his nature.Others, cannot give a good definition, which collapses in front of them.In fact, others are so bold as to comment on his behaviour, and how he works.If you understand how God works, then are you not God yourself?

However I respect the personal reasons for believing in whatever it may be, even if it is illogical.Comfort, and happiness is important too.

Regards

Darth Dane

Even before I found these quotes in the bible I reasoned that Love is the most amazing thing I've ever experienced, and that experience is what I will define as "God"

Definition of God: 1st John 4:7-8. God is Love

The Kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21

Everything else is derived from a place of Love.


When we touch Love we touch the Kingdom/God

The more we Love the more we touch, the more we touch the more we become One with that Love which is the inner of our being.





DD - Love & Laughter

stretch

So, based on this line of reasoning, the confusion among theists regarding how to define God is a sign of the fact that it is impossible to define God from within a limited human perspective?

Randy X

Forgive me stretch, but are you an atheist or theist. I have not read this entire thread yet, so I don't know where you stand in all of this.

I would say yes, God is undefinable. Everyone has their own definition, and that obviously is not an absolute or complete definition by any means.Of course, i'm an atheist so I wouldn't care.

Regards

stretch

Hi Christ,

Although I think it's largely irrelevant for the crux of the conversation, I'm a theist, but was an atheist (sometimes agnostic) for many decades

Randy X

Hi stretch,

I was a Christian for 18 years, until I hit a brick wall and came to the realisation that there is no God, and no supporting evidence to proof validity.

Of course, I'm not saying that God doesn't exist as a fact, but rather until evidence can support his existance, he is irrelevant to me.Why should I believe in a fiction? Can you convince me to believe in God?

Regards

stretch

Hi Christ,

Sounds like we've traded places and cosmic balance has been restored.

If you think God is a fiction, of course, it doesn't make any sense to believe in a fictional God. If you want to be convinced to believe, I doubt that I can do the job. Even if I could, this would not be the place to do it .... I wouldn't come to an atheist/agnostic forum to convert people ... if you want to be converted, there are other places that you can go for that.

pagabler

Hi Christ,

No. I can't convince you to believe in God. I can (briefly) share my story.

I was an athiest for as long as I could remember. I was raised in a Christian family (my father was/is a Protestant Minister), but I was rebellious, refused confirmation, and was quite outspoken as to how ridiculous and hypocritical it all was.

In my early thirties I encountered Buddhism. Buddhism was logical and made no faith requirements of me (Buddhism is *not* a religion.) I got hooked. I practiced Buddhism for several years, remaining a confirmed athiest for a long time.

After several years as a practicing Buddhist, I began to realize that I was regularly encountering something that I couldn't explain. That was several years ago, and I now call that something, "God."

That something that I encountered, and continue to encounter every day, has allowed me to rediscover my Christian heritage, claim it for myself, and make it my own in a very real, rational, logical, and grounded way. By "grounded" I mean grounded in experience (my own.) It is no longer simply a matter of belief.

My "Christianity" is not what most would consider orthodox. I don't believe in a thiestic god. I view Yashua as a spiritual teacher, as I do Buddha, Moses, and Mohammed; and I read the Bible as a historical/metaphorical document describing first century Palestine. In that light, I take it (the Bible) seriously, but not literally. (I have a Rabbi friend who claims that I'm really not a Christain -- I may someday come to agree. I don't agree at present.)

My point here is that I can't help you. I can't convince you, nor should I try. You must find your own way. I can point to the moon for you as Buddha and Yashua have done for me, but you have to seek the moon for yourself.

If you're feeling whole where you are right now, then that's probably good enough.

Peace,
P.

Randy X

I'm feeling as whole as can be

Thank you for attempting to help, and I realise that its pointless in either case. Once evidence can proof Gods existance, then i'll be more inclined to believe in him.In other words accept the truth, and not hide from it.I suspect that Atheism will be dead and gone(mostly), once Gods existance is supported by evidence.Evidence that is verified by the scientific community, and myself, as well as universally accepted.Although there might be some that refuse to accept God, as that is to be expected given the reasons.Now what worries me, is that if we came to the conclusion that God just doesn't exist, then everyone else will still believe in him, and they won't care, otherwise stubborn.In other words, nothing can could/ or would convince theists that God doesn't exist, and its an assumption that i'm leaning towards.

But i've come to realise that its the personal reasons that is important above all else.Forget about everything else, your happiness is all that counts.As long as you know that something good is governing your life, then its perfectly fine.Some others believe that they don't exist(solipsism), and they are quite frankly insane.Its better IMO, to believe in something rather than nothing(i'm a hypocrite I know) and i'm guilty as charged.If i had to convince some theists to disbelieve, I probably could, but it might just break them.My conclusion, is that there might never be any general consensus on this subject, or any resolution regarding evidence, regarding the existance of God.

Regards