Amos

Hi diana, I really don't know if sexual taboos exist to provoke lust but since "I owe you one" (from way back) I thought that this answer would surely befuddle you enough to get even.

On second thought, if people are anything like rabits, taboos such as separation in the case with rabits is required to provoke desire.

All protestant churches will freely admid--if not boast--that "the cross of eternal salvation is for sinners only" wherefore the laws were given to Moses not in effort to stop sin but to convict man of sin. Combined this spells that sin is good to firstly please Moses and secondly Jesus Christ who himself was convicted as sinner and showed us the way as sinners. So therefore, sin is good and sin does not lead people away from salvation because salvation itself does not require a state of acquired righteousness but rather needs a state of acquired sinfullness.

They do have that effect, don't they?

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Amos

You are wrong here because sin is like the bait of a fisherman to catch the big one. The big one is not the sin but the human nature of man wherein we are alienated from God. This is the reason why sin is mythology specific and can vary within one mythology from one area to another.

diana

Is <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000800&p=4" target="_blank">this</a> what you still owe me for? (That was such a fun thread.)

And don't worry, Amos. You always befuddle me. Oddly enough, it's part of your charm.

We really did miss you.

Some people are like rabbits, yes.

Yes. Without a law to break, there is no crime. I'm with you so far.

If Christ was convicted as a sinner and showed us the way, do you mean that we should all be convicted as sinners and be nailed to a tree then?

IOWs, how dare we make Christ's sacrifice meaningless by not sinning?

d

Amos

Ah, but Jesus died to set Christ free (read carefully and don't believe the preacher). It was the crucifixion of Jesus that allowed Son of Man (here called Bar-abbas) to be set free because Pilate hath said three times that he could find no fault with the man and allowed the Jews to crucify the imposter called Jesus (Mt.27:64) according to Jewish law (not civil law).

Thanks for your welcome and hope your summer was great. No I am not really back but could not resist the temptation (how wretched I am).

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Defiant Heretic

Just a thought: How did Adam and Eve know that it was wrong to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They wouldn't have had a concept of right and wrong until after they ate the fruit.

Amos

Hello Defiant, you should real it for yourself, carefully and preferably in a Catholic bible. You will find that "woman saw that the apple was pleasing to the eyes, good for food and desirable for gaining wisdom." It was for this reason that she had some and gave some to her husband. Adam and Eve were not in existence at this time and do not come into the scene until God said "Adam where are you?" Adam was conjectered into the mind of man to become the second identity we now call our ego consciousness.

Defiant Heretic

I'm not really sure what you're saying here, Amos.
Would you care to clarify?

Defiant Heretic

I don't know what maps they're looking at. The four rivers mentioned are the Pishon, the Gihon, the Tigris, and the Euphrates. The Tigris and Euphrates are major rivers in the mid-east. The Pishon and Gihon are either dried up or named something else. (or else they never existed and were just made up so no one could try and verify the story) but there are several small rivers in that area.

This map shows the Mesopotamian area, along with the rivers: <a href="http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_middle_east/iraq.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_middle_east/iraq.jpg</a>

Amos

The four rivers do not have to be on the map because Gen.2:10-14 is an allegory that describes the journey of life.

The river of life rises in Eden and beyond there it divides and becomes four branches. The first is the Phison. This river winds throught the entire land such as we are when we are in pursuit of power wealth and beauty. We will find gold there and bdellium and lapis lazuli we use to decorate our ego awareness.

The second river also winds throught this same land and brings pain, sorrow and dispair in equal amounts because pleasure cannot be conceived the exist without pain, both must exist to the same degree.

The third river rises from the East from where we left to go West because we could not go East from East of Eden. Our entrance upon this river is the beginning of Purgatory (the Yang period) intil we arrive at the Euphrates which just "is" as in "I am." Eu-phrates means bright mind and signifies that we have come full circle in life.

This passage describes the plan of salvation even from before the fall of man and so God did not have a surpise when man sinned from which follows that Jesus did not pay the price for your sins.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Amos

I am telling you that man and woman ate from the apple because woman saw that the apple was good for gaining wisdom etc. Adam and Eve are not the same characters as man and woman but are created here to become the self consciousness of man. Hence the "naked to wit/no shame" and "no longer naked to wit/felt shame" distinction between Gen.2 and Gen.3.