Psychic

another unsubstantiated post like your posts and I think I'll (Psychic, that is getting much to close to being a personal attack - edited by The Other Michael)!

do you have rheumatoid arthritis of the hand that prevents you from typing more? or no no no Rheumatoid arthritis patients usually recieve high doses of steroid, and steroids are a major cause of PSYCHOSIS! hmmm... now that I understand, I am not angry anymore *sigh*

Buddrow_Wilson

Personally, I have a level of sympathy for anyone struggling with the human condition. Empathy actually.

There are some cases where people who attempt or threaten suicide are craving attention more than anything else. Even in those I have sympathy for their plight.

I'm not exactly pro-suicide. If someone is making a public spectacle of their suicide attempt, then I would say we should attempt to stop that person. Those cases are more likely to be cries for attention than a real desire to be dead. If a person plans and executes the act in private, who is to stop that anyway?

I believe there should be a system in place for the assessment of an individual's mental and physical health, and if the person's desire to end life is deemed rational, then they would be granted an "assisted-suicide". This would serve multiple purposes: To make the life's ending as pleasant as possible, avoid unpleasant situations such as a family member discovering a suicide, to give the individual a measure of dignity in death, possibly avoid suicide by "temporarily distressed" people, etc. Of course what does and does not constitute "rational" is up to debate.

Psychic

well said man, couldn't be stated in any better way.
but what I could contribute to the final picture is about screening for suicide:
in Oxford textbook of psychiatry- B.K. Puri and others, it is stated that: "it has been found that the majority of people who commit suicide have actually told somebody of their thoughts beforehand. indeed, two-thirds have seen their GP in the previous month; a quarter have been found to be psychiatric outpatients at the time of death; half of those will have seen a psychiatrist in the previous week.

the buttom line is: we have to pay more attention! to everyone around us, it might have been stated as a joke! or any form of expression. take things more seriously. most of those people I am refering to have prominent psyhicatric illness and can be treated even by a friend! if that friend payed more attention and listened more carefully and most importantly more empathicly.

Buddrow_Wilson

This is probably the most difficult level of suicide prevention. We are now shifting some focus away from the individual to society.

It may be that if the individual had an adequate support system originally, his mental state would not have degenerated to a suicidal point. Thus, it would not be up to his friends and family to recognize the warnings, but acquaintances or even strangers.

I have found that in many instances these people are less likely to express their true feelings to close friends and family, being more likely to use anonymous forums or mediums like journals.

Ice

meritocrat:

I don't think it's OK to harm anyone, but when it comes to life, I have to weigh their concern against my life. Does that mean I should NOT do anything that upsets anyone at all? I must please everyone, even to my own extreme detriment? (Anyway, I don't know why you think I'm looking for sympathy - AFAIK, I didn't profess any intention to kill myself here.)

Does living in Singapore mean I must subscribe to an Eastern philosophy? And why does anyone have a fascination with anything? Just because everyone "shouldn't" think about death is no reason why I shouldn't. I'm trying to test out the irrationality argument here, but you seem to want to persuade me that life MUST always be preserved no matter the cost. That's the feeling I get anyway, from your arguments.

meritocrat

No, pleasing others to your own detriment is not always logical. Nevertheless, suicide is selfish since you harm others when taking your life.


I just don't 'get' suicide.

Buddrow_Wilson

No sh*t its selfish (except when done to save another, for insurance, etc), but we do selfish things all the time. Is that really a good argument? A person selfishly wants to end his/her suffering..ok I'll give you that. Its selfish because you are 'harming' others? Man, if the only reason you live is to benefit others, that's no life. There are many people out there that actually have little to no support or contact with relatives or friends. These people can die without 'harming' anyone, so according to your argument, these people could logically commit suicide? What it comes down to is in fact what you pointed out. Suicidal thoughts are normally intensely selfish, if you want to convince the person that they are better off alive, its imperative that you instill personal or selfish reasons that living is desireable, otherwise its a lost cause. A state of extreme depression is centered very much in a personal world. The concerns of others are much less important than those of the person.

Its simple. A person does not enjoy living and wants to die. You obviously enjoy your life and have never harbored such thoughts, so you can't empathize. However, I would hope that you could understand that there are people for whom living is tortuous.

Instead of looking at a suicidal person and thinking they are crazy and you have no hope of understanding their logic, we should try to understand what is going on in their mind and help create a logic that will make them want to live.

And for cases that their desire for death is in fact quite understandable (wasting, agonizing diseases with no hope of recovery, etc) perhaps we should consider helping the person end life with dignity.

winstonjen

It's also selfish when you insist that they stay alive so that others can be happy




Which do you prefer? Pain, or no pain, given that those were the only 2 choices available to you.

meritocrat

Whatever. I have no sympathy for someone who kills themselves because they can't hack through life.

Quote:

Which do you prefer? Pain, or no pain, given that those were the only 2 choices available to you.

No pain. And?

Buddrow_Wilson

I'm assuming you accept my points, since you didn't offer a rebuttal.