emotional

Those are your interpretations. It's not what I said at all.

I want to keep on existing, that's all.

OK, I'm backing out of this debate. I didn't come here to debate anyway. My faith is not something I can put under trial.

Nowhere357

Well that was graceful. Odd that you came to a debate forum I think.

You know what they say - can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Darth Dane

I don't remember that quote (could be wrong). I thought it was Give to Ceasar what is his and Give to God what is his (or something like that) Are you sure about that?? Wait a second. That can't be right because if Jesus was saying that, then he would be saying give God some of the stuff and give Jesus (me) some of the stuff. That separates Jesus from God. Go back and check that and get me a cup of coffee while you're at it.

It is not included in th eordinary bible.

(100) They showed Jesus a gold piece and said to him: Caesar's men demand tribute from us. He said to them: What belongs to Caesar, give to Caesar; what belongs to God, give to God; and what is mine, give it to me - Gospel of Thomas


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So you are, by this sentence THERE. So tell me how is it there?
What can you tell me about this state of conciousness?
What words, even though none will suffice, will you use to describe this state?
Others have tried before you, I would Love to hear your words.
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Of course I'm not going to do that. That's silly. You have been the one that is trying to describe reality to people on this board. That's why you are now asking ME to do that. Isn't it?. I don't describe reality. I don't describe truth, but I CAN identify falsehoods. That's easy because we make them up in our heads and therefore THEY CAN be described quite well because we also made up words as well. So the two work very nicely together.

So your point is that no matter what anyone says, it will be a falsehood? How do you know what is false? To know what is false you must know what is true. Tell me plz, what is true?


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What makes you able to say that I Am close and you already there?
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How would I know I'm there, if I didn't care? You seem to care and strive for this stuff. You need it and that is your final obstacle o' wise one.

If you don't know if you are there, how can you say if I Am? And plz don't tell me that that is the point.


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On whose authority do you judge my spiritual ascension?
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That's defensive. You're breaking up Obey Wan. I judge your ascension based on the fact that you just got defensive and maybe a little offended by my statements. Kind of like "Oh yeah, well who died and made you boss?". That's kind of how I read that. If you were ascended, you wouldn't be offended (boy, that was bad poetry).

No it is not defensive, it was a question! If you have perceived it as defensive, it must stem from your own self. Note that that is how you read it, well take note in not what you see in my words, but what I put in them, if you don't know ASK!


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I hear what you are saying, yet could you be mistaken with me?
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Who cares whether I am or not. I don't. You care, that's who. That's why you raised that question. Get it yet?

You obviously care, or you wouldn't be here debating!


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Could all your empirical evidence mean nothing if I was different? Do you leave a window open for this?
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I don't recall giving you ANY empirical evidence. I don't bother with that. Empirical evidence takes care of itself. Why should I be a parrot and repeat what is already obvious and proven. Are you possibly confusing me with someone else on the board?[/quote]

Look here.

Because I've seen this before. Someone wants to wake up so badly that they create a dream for themselves that they have woken up. But they are still sleepwalking. Any time I see a preacher or a person trying to save someone, I can recognize that they are still sleepwalking (I'll exclude Jesus from that). And they can be more harmful to people than the doubting Atheist. There is an old saying: "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates the teacher and irritates the pig".

So your empiricial evidence is that everyone is sleepwalking, and thus also me. I asked if I could be different, if there was a window open for the possibility of me not being a sleepwalker.

Is it possible?

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A blind cannot lead a blind, but I wish not to lead but to open peoples eyes.
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Oh God. That was great. So you are not a blind man leading the blind, you are a blind man teaching people how to see. Right?

No I am saying our eyes are open already. You are here trying to open my eyes no?
So remember who is benefitting most from your crusade.


Of course you are Virginia,..."sweetie". If you are POSITIVE that you are right, then why are you wasting your time on this board? I wouldn't. I'll tell you one thing that I"M POSITIVE of. I'M POSITIVE about your DESPERATE NEED to be right. It's written all over your face. Also, I'll bet you would be happy to see me be wrong and suffer for it "in the end". Just an observation. No sense in taking this any further. Enjoy having the "CORRECT" nightmare my little emotional sleepwalker. Toodles

You are just as positive that you are correct and we are mistaken. You are here to be confirmed in your belief just as much as us. You say you know the truth, or taht we at least don't have it, yet you offer no alternative explanation or method of understanding. Are you just here to belittle others in their belief?
It seesm so, and it doesn't strike me as being very humane. Plz correct me if I am wrong.

How would you like to REALLY love God? You might say "oh I do, with all my heart". I think not. You cannot REALLY love anyone (let alone God) if you NEED them. If you need that person or God, then you are destined to merely love the "fulfillment" of that "need". That is what you are loving, and it's obvious from what you said above. Sorry if nobody has ever told you so before, but you should be happy because you just lost an obstacle to loving God. Imagine going in front of God if nobody told you this, expecting your peice of the pie, your little reward for your sacrifices (all for you). I think God would give you a "humble pie", in the face, and you would have deserved it. But, no more!!! Be happy!!!

So what you are adressing is Attachment? Yes in Love there is no need, no want no reason no meaning it just is. To have a need for something is to say you are not complete as you are, which we are.

Sounds buddhist to me. Yet also Christian eh?

"And when you stop and think about it,
you won't believe it's true,
that all the love you've been giving
has all been meant for you"


"God loves each of us, as if there was only one of us" - St. Augustine

... I don't understand why an afterlife is going to help you in this life and why you therefore want one so desperately.

Good point, what happens after is not remotely as important as to what happens Now.

But it does hold one help. The removal of fear. If you know you are eternal you have no fear.
The fear comes when anyone claims to know that "sinners" go to Hell, and that only by doing certain things do you reach "heaven."



Why does the caterpillar metamorphisize into a butterfly? Why does the infant want to crawl out of the crib? Why are the ants and the bees just cells in a hive and a colony?

Transcendance, maybe?

yes, what will we transcend into? (psalms 82?)



I want to keep on existing, that's all.

Do you exist when you sleep?

As you go onto the next phase of life, you will either be concious or un-concious, but you will always Be! To elevate your conciousness is a way to stay "awake" during the transission.

Here is the entry from "Guinness Book of World Records" (1979 Edition):

"Sister Therese Neumann survived 35 years on the "bread" of the Holy Eucharist at mass each morning at Konnersreuth, Germany."

Here Mr. Vogl describes Therese's Passion ecstasies, her stigmata, miraculous receptions of Holy Communion, her abstinence from 1926 to 1962 from all food and drink except the Eucharistic Host, her living without sleep, her visions and the language phenomenon, her mystical recognition of priests and relics, her cures and prophecies, and her bilocation and other mystical gifts. http://www.catholictreasures.com/descrip/10804.html

Didn't sleep for 36 years! Would constitute an awakened conciousness.






DD - Love Spliff