keyser_soze

Didn't want to run through the gamut of responses on this, and post my wife's story with atkins. Six months ago, she went to the doctor, doctor does blood work and calls her back. Tells her that she is borderline. Her cholesterol aggregate was somewhere in the high 200's. Her triglcycerides were over 700. She was considering medication. My wife had heard about the atkins, and started on it. 3 months later, 36 pounds lost, cholesteral was at 129, and triglycerides at 135. Her energy level is the highest it's been since college, she's kept it off for an additional 3 months while allowing some carb intake, and seems like she is 10 years younger. I know it's only anecdotal evidence, but damned if it doesn't seem to work. I know another lady who was on it, because she was about to start taking medication for a problem she was struggling with(diabetes). 3 years later, she's got a normal blood sugar count, has high energy, kept the weight off, and is on a minimal maitenance atkins level(basically eats what she wants but avoids carbs a lot). I tried it myself, but couldn't get past my love for potatoes and milk. Not really overweight, but I could stand to lose a few pounds to get back in my old shape. Started working out instead and am doing okay with that. I'll not knock the diet though, everyone that was on it, and stayed on it to some extent seems to be doing awesome, and they seem to be off the yo-yo.

Nuno Figueira

Dr Atkins just died a few days ago.

keyser_soze

70 odd years old, perfect health, spent a lifetime trying to make other people healthy....then he goes and slips on the ice and cracks his head open. How freaking ironic is that?

JGL53

Yep, Atkins has died, but his 'spirit', so to speak, lives on. I have no doubt that when the long term studies are completed by the NIH and others in three or four years, he will be completely vindicated on all of his dietary recommendations.

In the meantime, MILLIONS of people will follow his advice and be the better for it. All of his critics suffer from cranial rectitus, for which there is no known cure, not even chiropractic. Sad, so sad.

BTW, the most interesting item in his obit in USA Today was the fact that Atkins originally got the low carb idea from reading about ".. fat-causing effects of carbohydrates in low-fat foods" back in 1963 in THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION!

Uh Huh, that's right - one of the institutions that hated Atkins the most was the very one that provided the information leading to the initial change in his thinking on diet in the first place. Now THAT'S freaking ironic.

alek0

Can any of the supporters of Atkins diet explain why obesity is not so prevalent in Italy and China where main staple of diet are carbs (pasta in first case, rice in second case)?

scigirl

Nuno Figueira (or anyone else who knows the answer):

You stated,
I learned in my medical physiology class that the brain doesn't start using ketones until glucose is gone, and it takes a week or two because essential enzymes in the ketone metabolism pathway have to be up-regulated. In other words - it isn't an immediate compensation of a low-sugar diet. It's one of the reasons diabetes can be a problem - your brain never uses the damn ketones cuz sugar is always too high to turn on the ketone enzymes. Starvation in the midst of plenty.

Is this true?

Oh - and where did you get your data for the claim that osteoporosis was lower in ancestral populations. Did they even live that long??

Thanks a bunch,

scigirl

scigirl

Here's a couple of interesting studies I found on pubmed in regards to chronic metabolic acidosis:

Acid-base imbalance and the skeleton.
Diet, evolution and aging--the pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet.

The problem with this whole argument is the fact that the beauty in a diet is in the eye of the beholder. Is your goal to lose weight, live longer, keep your bone mass, keep your taste buds healthy, or all of the above? I doubt that there is one diet that can satisfy all of human needs. Plus, it probably depends on the human - my biochemistry is different than Joe's or Mary's, and the genetic diversity in biochemical pathways is just beginning to be explored, IMHO. The sheer fact that I can eat a box of cookies without gaining weight whereas my friends put on pounds just by thinking about cookies - clearly says to me that there is no such thing as one size fits all diet that works for everyone.

My class on nutrition just started, and I am looking forward to learning more about all of these complexities. It does seem to keep coming back to - eat a balanced diet and exercise, though, doesn't it?

scigirl

JGL53

I'm not an expert on these kinds of questions, but here's my understanding:

Italians do have a lot of obese, especially in the older population, just not as much as America. The average diet in Italy, what with the olive oil, sausage, fatty fish, and cheese is actually higher in percent fat than the American one (same is true for the French, who have a lower heart attack rate than America). True, Italians eat pasta, but most don't stuff their faces. They also eat a lot of green leafy, fiberous vegetables and fresh foods in general and most don't endulge in processed, refined, high sugar garbage like Americans do. Also, they walk and ride bikes more and don't ride their SUVs one frigging block to the grocery store to buy chips, dip, ice cream, donuts, TV dinners, and other godawful crap.

Asians are mainly ectomorphic. This helps. They do eat rice and noodles, but also a lot of green, fiberous vegetables, smaller amounts of high protein and fat foods, and don't have access to large amounts of candy, sugary soft drinks, chocolate milk, pastries, etc. as small children.

Many more Americans overeat because of the high sugar/low fiber diet that they eat. This acts to stimulate over-production of insulin, causing low blood sugar, causing over-eating to compensate (of everything, sugar, starch, fat, and protein). The lack of daily exercise certainly doesn't help.

So it's cultural, alek0. I don't think it's practical to believe large numbers of Americans will be persuaded to eat just rice, fiberous veggies, and small amounts of fish or other meats, and no sweets. It would be healthy, but it ain't gonna happen. The best to hope for is a diet mainly of healthy proteins and fats, with the aforementioned veggies, nuts, some fruit, some whole grains, and low-carb desserts.

BTW, there's a tribe in Africa (Masai?) who mainly exist on whole cows' milk mixed with cows' blood (a sixty-two per cent fat diet), yet are slender and healthy. Should we switch to their diet? Hey, it's obviously healthy (not too seemingly palatable for the average American, though).

Or consider the 'native' Alaskans' (formerly known as Eskimos) diet of whale blubber and fish (seventy-five per cent fat diet) with relatively little vegetables - they are thick-bodied but strong and hardly out of shape or obese. Should we switch to their diet? Nah.

Different diets do work for different people. As long as your insulin production is normal, and you have no insulin resistance problems, or other measurable or obvious health problems, then the particular mixture of fat, protein, carbs, and fiber that you eat is obviously right FOR YOU.

One last point - no one has ever produced ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a low carb (i.e., controlled carb) diet is unhealthy in any way. If you're constipated, eat more fiber and drink more water. If you get ketone breath, drink more water, or buy some Binaca. There's plenty of variety in lower carb food. Ketones won't hurt you. There's absolutely no proof that a human needs large quantites of sugar or starchy foods like grains or potatoes to be healthy. Vitamins are cheap. So what EXACTLY is the problem with a carbohydrate-controlled diet, if many people CHOOSE to eat that way and it works for them?

Godot

JGL53:
apart from the obvious rebuttal that the burden of proof lies with those that advocate ketogenic diets such as Atkins did, such diets run contrary to the dietary recommendations put forth. The dietary guidelines are based upon the present consensus of the scientific data; to suggest that the guidelines have it wrong requires a mountain of evidence to substantiate the claim. At present, there is no evidence.
Unsubstantiated claims that will be "vindicated" when the evidence comes in is quackery.
Check out the references in this article from quackwatch: Low-Carbohydrate Diets. Once you've done that, then we'll talk.
While you're there, check up on what quackery is and you might just see where Atkins fits in.

keyser_soze

Overall, I think it would be wiser to wait for the studies to be concluded. While the diet is not for me, I can see obvious anecdotal evidence in my wife and other acquaintances(a triglyceride drop of 600 points and an overall cholesterol drop in the range of 150-200 points in the same period, as well as a leveling of blood sugar in a few short months is rather astounding. And I think people are misinformed, other than the initial two week extremely low carb intake, the carbs allowed go up as time progresses. My wife can't eat as much as she used to carb wise, but she is probably allowed more carbs than she eats. And the physical changes are dramatic. I think it would be safer from a face saving standpoint to definately wait for the studies. I've seen too many people of late doing very well on this thing, and several people that have been on it for 3 years and over...no side effects(other than increased fitness and energy levels). It's just a diet change to my eye, no different than the many out there, except people seem to have a much easier time staying on it. Remember, Atkins himself was healthy until he died(from external sources no less). And many people have been on it for years. 6 months ago, I would have said "dumb idea", but eye witness observation, and questioning(I wouldn't allow my wife to try it until I had asked around a good bit, I distrust fads) have relaxed my opinion on it. While I still am looking to see the 15 year studies results, I have a good idea what they will be already. Too bad I like potatoes and french bread, chocolate milk and ice cream!