Dr Rick

There might be detrimental environmental and physiologic effects from depleted uranium related to its chemical properties. Aerisolized release of DU into the environment by explosive forces in concentrated battlefield conditons could cause high environmental heavy metal accumulation, but so can lead-based or other heavy metal projectiles.

Laboratory studies in tissue cultures and animals have found a teratogenic effect, but I can find no epidemiologic evidence in the primary international medical literature that DU is associated with any disease state or birth defects.

Lakartidningen 2003 Jan 23;100(4):219-21

Depleted uranium a cancer risk that disappeared. Leukemia alarm regarding Balkan veterans came to nothing

[Article in Swedish]

Lagercrantz B.

"After alarming reports in the international press in January 2001, about leukemia in war veterans returning from the Balkans after possible exposure to depleted uranium, a follow-up was conducted of the Swedish personnel that had served in the Balkans. Questionnaires, analysis of uranium in urine, and coordination with The National Board of Health and Welfare's cancer register showed no correlation between service in the Balkans and cancer or other illnesses. Several did however experience anxiety, insomnia and fatigue that may have been caused by the stressful environment and/or the anxiety arising from the depleted uranium-debate..."

Toxicol Ind Health 2001 Jun;17(5-10):180-91

A review of the effects of uranium and depleted uranium exposure on reproduction and fetal development.

Arfsten DP, Still KR, Ritchie GD.

Naval Health Research Center Detachment-Toxicology

"...Recent combat applications of DU alloy [i.e., Persian Gulf War (PGW) and Kosovo peacekeeping objective] resulted in human acute exposure to DU dust, vapor or aerosol, as well as chronic exposure from tissue embedding of DU shrapnel fragments. DU...emits approximately 60% of the...radiation found in natural uranium...DU is a heavy metal that is 160% more dense than lead and can remain within the body for many years and slowly solubilize. High levels of urinary uranium have been measured in PGW veterans 10 years after exposure to DU fragments and vapors. In rats, there is strong evidence of DU accumulation in tissues including testes, bone, kidneys, and brain. In vitro tests indicate that DU alloy may be both genotoxic and mutagenic, whereas a recent in vivo study suggests that tissue-embedded DU alloy may be carcinogenic in rats. There is limited available data for reproductive and teratological deficits from exposure to uranium per se, typically from oral, respiratory, or dermal exposure routes. Alternatively, there is no data available on the reproductive effects of DU embedded..."

J Environ Radioact 2003;64(2-3):237-45

Depleted uranium residual radiological risk assessment for Kosovo sites.

Durante M, Pugliese M.

Department of Physics, University Federico II, Monte S. Angelo, Via Cintia, 80126 Napoli, Italy

"During the recent conflict in Yugoslavia, depleted uranium rounds were employed and were left in the battlefield. Health concern is related to the risk arising from contamination of areas in Kosovo with depleted uranium penetrators and dust. Although chemical toxicity is the most significant health risk related to uranium, radiation exposure has been allegedly related to cancers among veterans of the Balkan conflict. Uranium munitions are considered to be a source of radiological contamination of the environment. Based on measurements and estimates from the recent Balkan Task Force UNEP mission in Kosovo, we have estimated effective doses to resident populations using a well-established food-web mathematical model (RESRAD code). The UNEP mission did not find any evidence of widespread contamination in Kosovo...Even in this worst-case scenario, DU radiological risk would be far overshadowed by its chemical toxicity."

Mil Med 2002 Aug;167(8):620-7

The quantitative analysis of depleted uranium isotopes in British, Canadian, and U.S. Gulf War veterans.

Horan P, Dietz L, Durakovic A.

Department of Earth Sciences, Memorial University of Newfoundland, St. Johns, Canada.

"The purpose of this work was to determine the concentration and ratio of uranium isotopes in allied forces Gulf War veterans...The results confirm the presence of depleted uranium (DU) in 14 of 27 samples, with the 238U:235U ratio > 207.15. This is significantly different from natural uranium (p < 0.008) as well as from the DU shrapnel analysis, with 22.22% average value of DU fraction, and warrants further investigation."

Mil Med 2002 Feb;167(2 Suppl):123-4

Health effects and biological monitoring results of Gulf War veterans exposed to depleted uranium.

McDiarmid MA, Hooper FJ, Squibb K, McPhaul K, Engelhardt SM, Kane R, DiPino R, Kabat M.

Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, 10 North Greene Street, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA.

"A small group of Gulf War veterans have retained fragments of depleted uranium (DU) shrapnel, the long-term health consequences of which are undetermined. We evaluated the clinical health effects of DU exposure in Gulf War veterans compared with nonexposed Gulf War veterans. History and follow-up medical examinations were performed on 29 exposed veterans and 38 nonexposed veterans...Gulf War veterans with retained DU metal shrapnel fragments were found to be still excreting elevated levels of urinary uranium 7 years after first exposure to DU...The persistence of the elevated urine uranium suggests ongoing mobilization of uranium from a storage depot, resulting in chronic systemic exposure. Adverse effects in the kidney, a presumed target organ, were not seen at the time of the study; however, other subtle effects were observed in the reproductive and central nervous systems of the DU-exposed veterans." [similar effects and body storage may be seen from chronic heavy metal exposure, not just DU - Rick]

Rick

The SwampThing

What does this tell us? After all the ink spread, it took a spanish person to correct what i asked for ,5 or 6 posts later!!
Anyway, the word "unknown" is an adjective and i was using the verb. Unless i�m mistaken, when a verb ends with an "n", you add the "ed" at the end. I assume this verb exists in the english language aswell, because it exists in every other language.
Perhaps some english major can enlighten us and dissipate my doubts.
And even if i�m wrong, wich is very much possible, i don�t feel the need to know how to spell every single word of the english vocabulary. I already have to tend with 4 other languages.

Loren, what do you mean by "the original did not say this"??? Original of what??
And another think, if you wish to be humorous, try telling jokes! Don�t be a wise guy/girl, ok?
And what do you mean by foreigners? To me, you are a foreigner aswell!!

Changing subject: any remarks on those pictures i posted? Any pseudo-explanations?
Also, going back to the thread subject, any coments on the latest attacks? It seems the numbers i posted need updating since then... A few more have kicked the bucket in Iraq!!
I wonder what will Bush and Rummy say about all this...?! Will he call it colateral damage, or acceptable losses?
I can�t wait for the next speech!!

Derec

Birth defects happen everywhere to a certain degree. A presence of birth defects is not a proof that DU is the culprit anyway, as there are many possible causes. The photos make for good alarmist propaganda though.
Also, if DU is to blame that both the babies and the mothers would have to register higher uranium levels than normal.

UMoC

RLV

No such think! I'm Catalan, not Spanish.

No need for an English major, methinks.

You wrote:
"And what about the iraqi numbers?
Unknowned..."

I assume you meant "They are not known". In this case, you should have written: "Unknown".

The verb you are using is "know". It's an irregular verb: know, knew, known. Its past participle, which can also be used as an adjective (linguists be lenient) is "known". If you add the negative prefix 'un', you get "unknown".

If you really want to be fully correct, you can use an spell-checker. But I don't think you need it: your English is more than good enough to communicate without any problem. That particular typo just came in a funny form (at least funny for MegaDave). But everybody was able to understand it anyway.


RLV

RLV

In this particular matter, international organizations such as the Red Cross have been warning about an extremely high incidence of cancer cases in some areas of Iraq, like Basrah. It's not just birth defects, but a very high incidence in general and some very rare cases like double breast cancer in 10-yo girls.
(I believe they talked of some 50 times the normal rate of cancer victims, but I don't have the data handy.)

These areas are said roughly match zones where DU shells were used in big quantities against Iraqi positions. There is no knowledge of any chemical agent used or stored in the area.

I don't know if the data is enough to establish a causation, and the tests you mention tend to disprove it. But it seems clear that something happens and DU is present there. An extensive study ought to be done, but methinks this will not happen.


RLV

The SwampThing

I aprecciate your swift reply.
And, i have absolutely nothing against catalans, although i have a hard time understanding your lingo!!
I lived in C�diz myself, for a couple of years, and on my way to Italy, i stopped by Bar�elona. Why do you guys look at us funny, when we speak castellano?? I thought i was going to get my ass kicked by a bartender, once!!

Your analysis is very good, but isn�t it diferent when we use the plural? Like "desconocido" y "desconocidos"?
Anyway, its not that important. What bugs me, is that they are quick to criticize, but fail to present the corrected answer! Why did it take a "catal�n" to set it right???
Oh well, lets drop the issue.

UglyManOnCampus,
answering to your post:
I see your point. Any civilization or country has his share of birth defects. Nothing wrong with that. But numbers show an increase in the Iraqi birth defect percentage, of over 400% in the period immediatly after the first Gulf War.How do you explain that? And how do you explain the same happening in Kosovo, and to troops who were stationed in both of these theaters of operations?
Coincidence? I don�t believe in coincidences...
Besides, most of these abnormalities were concentrated in specific areas, wich clearly shows a direct cause-effect situation.

It usually takes a while for scientists to evaluate the consequences of new types of weapons.It happened with the A-Bomb, it happened with Agent Orange, and it�s happening with DU ordenance.
In a few years, this discussion will be purely academic!
:banghead: :banghead:

auto-da-fe

Wow!

I just put that in there as a humorous little aside. I did not mean to offend anyone, and I was not trying to make my comments perjorative. I guess my humor can be a little.... off, but I really didn't think that some tangent debate about semantics would start.

Again, did not mean to offend anyone, so if I did, much apologies.

RLV

I didn't take it as that.

Hey, you shouldn't. Knowing at least Portuguese and Spanish, you ought to have it easy learning any other Latin language.

Hum... I can only guess, but I would say because of the accent. It sounds funny, strange. Not bad-sounding, though, I'd say.
About the bartender... well, maybe some drinks had something to do with it.

No, it would be the same: 'unknown'.

Possibly because he just thought that it was a typing mistake, and that you already knew the answer. But I don't know, ask MegaDave, he's up there apologizing.


RLV

Dr Rick

This is terrible news; is it true? In other words, could we have some references to some reputable sources? Reputable sources would be ones such as Doctors without Borders or the World Health Organization.

The site with pictures you linked may not be the most objective and reliable source of information in this regard; it's home page spouts this:

"Satan, Dajjal, Freemasons and their conspiracies against Muslims"

and has a link to The Signs of Allah

The international medical literature has many studies with regard to DU; it does not support a link between it and birth defects or Gulf War syndrome

ohwilleke

I think that there are relatively credible estimates of U.S.-British casualties, and of Iraqi civilian casualties.

The number that I have seen no credible estimates for, but believe is important, are Iraqi military casualties.

There are a number of reasons why this is important:

1. Deaths to human beings are deaths to human beings.
2. Military death tolls have a big role in how much of an impact the war has on Iraqi society.
3. The ratio of military to civilian casualties is a good measure of how precise U.S. military force was in an action where the U.S. claimed that there was pinpoint accuracy.
4. The number of military deaths shows how much the war was won by being lethal and how much the war was won by the dissintigration of the Iraqi military, which is relevant to why U.S. military strategy succeeded.
5. The relative U.S. to Iraqi military deaths, while clearly lopsided, is a relevant factor in considering future wars.

Has anyone seen any credible estimates of Iraqi military deaths?