PierreMenard

Fourty four pages later it (rise of a terrible totalitarian state) happens. Where are you? Could this happen in your country? Why or why not? What would happen for it to happen?

Pierre

Misso

"Always clouded, the future is"

I don't think there will ever be a totalitarian state where I live, the Netherlands, but one can never be sure.

Three main reasons I think that there won't be a totalitarian state here:

- we have had over 150 years of "real" democracy by now (before that it was just democratic only in name, not in how it worked). Of those 150 years, the last 85 years or so have been a democracy with full inclusive citizenship (womens right to vote, no financial requirements for voting, equality, etc.). This system won't change in the coming years, so if there will be any move towards totalitarianism, it will be after some 170 years of a rather stable democracy, which is, in my opinion, not very likely. The people will simply not accept it.

- our constitution is quite rigid. It requires a majority of 66% in both chambers of parliament, and another majority of 66% in both chambers after new elections. This means that the power of the parliament and the government cannot change without a broad consensus amongst the Dutch people, unless the political parties have hidden agendas, and keep those hidden agendas after new elections, which isn't something that has to be taken into account. With the Dutch system, it is also highly unlikely that one party will have a 66% majority. So far in our parliamentary history, there hasn't been a single party that even got a 50% majority in any of the two chambers.
At the moment, I believe we have nine different parties in both chambers, and in both chambers, the first and second largest parties combined don't have a 66% majority.
Of course the constitution, government and parliament can, in theory, be overthrown by a revolution, but like the hidden agendas, I don't think that this is something that has to be taken into account.

- the European Union is will not just let one of its members become a totalitarian state.

Jolimont

Bonjour Pierre ! Pas de commentaires sur la citation, mais c'est bien d'avoir quelques fran�ais ici.

John Hancock

Here in the United States I think the process has already been initiated. Admittedly I've been clinically dianosed paranoid. I should note that those shrinks lived a much sheltered life.

Martin Buber

inmeitrust

Uh, what about during WWII? The Frank family might disagree. I don't believe the North American continent has ever experienced a dictator or totalitarianism. I don't think it could happen in the US. I think it will become rarer in the rest of the world. The days of tyrants are limited.

fuct_okc

I wonder everyday why my ancestors left holland... I desperatly want to go back

PierreMenard

My dear mother used to comment that it is not paranoia to comment when a man urinates on your feet.

Jutsuka

I live in Sweden, enough said...

BigBlue2

That was under Nazi occupation - hardly the status quo during the 150 years that Misso mentioned.

As for Australia becoming a totalitarian state - not likely to say the least. We have been a strong and stable democracy since Federation in 1901, our judiciary is independent of the government and our constitution can only be changed by a referendum that has to be passed by a majority odf all voters and a majority of voters in at least 4 of the 6 States. Further, like Holland, the people would not put up with a totalitarian system, in the unlikely event that someone is attempting to implement one. It is inconceivable that the military and police forces (which are controlled by the various State governments) would support a totaliatrian government.