Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Joe Meert · 06-01-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBH
JM - I was KIDDING! I ran onto that coincidentally in a search for something else completely unconnected with you, and couldn't resist.

RBH

JM: Oh, I know YOU were kidding...but there are lurkers who might think otherwise. Like I said, I understand using a handle and don't find it offensive except in a few cases. My personal experience is that it does not cause any trouble using my real name.

Cheers

Joe Meert

Jackalope · 06-02-2003, 12:04 AM

Some people are missing the point about the "pseudonymous" creationists named. They're using the pseudonym as a sock puppet. The main use for a sockpuppet account is to quote yourself and give yourself support while making it look like some random person has read your work and found it reasonable. Worse, Safarti at least is using sockpuppet accounts to review his own books at Amazon. This is unethical in the extreme. Remine and Turkel have done similar things. This is different from simply using a handle online to protect one's privacy. The intent here is to deceive.

Safarti, ReMine and Turkel all quote their own articles using sockpuppet accounts. This is deliberate deception used to help them win debates. If they didn't want their written work examined, they wouldn't be mentioning their own papers every couple posts. So that blows away the argument that they're trying to post without incurring bias. It's simply an attempt to dodge criticism of their work by holding up the sockpuppet ("see, I didn't write that, I just agree with it!"). Added to their habit of reviewing their own books and articles using sockpuppets, I'd hazard the guess that personal privacy has very little to do with their reasons for using pseudonyms.

unregistered_user_1 · 06-02-2003, 02:02 AM

Can you give any evidence that Sarfati is reviewing his own books on Amazon? Christ, if that could be proven, boy would it ever bust him up, once it was shown to the Amazon people!

Be some problems then when he tries to hawk his books!

Valentine Pontifex · 06-02-2003, 05:35 PM

Maybe it is time to gather the evidence that Sarfati is that guy on Amazon and send it to Amazon asking them to check the IP of both Sarfati and the second review alleged to be Sarfati. It can't hurt. And if they care then they might deactive him. And if they gave us confirmation...

Of course the problem is that Amazon may not care. They want a bunch of people giving positive reviews so they can sell books.

MarkW · 06-03-2003, 02:23 PM

Of course the problem is that Amazon may not care. They want a bunch of people giving positive reviews so they can sell books.

On this point, it should be noted that when the recent "Mary Rosh" affair came up, and it became known that "Mary Rosh" was just a sock puppet for John Lott, Amazon.com did take down "Mary's" review of Lott's book once a few people brought it too their attention.

Mark

Valentine Pontifex · 06-03-2003, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkW
Of course the problem is that Amazon may not care. They want a bunch of people giving positive reviews so they can sell books.

On this point, it should be noted that when the recent "Mary Rosh" affair came up, and it became known that "Mary Rosh" was just a sock puppet for John Lott, Amazon.com did take down "Mary's" review of Lott's book once a few people brought it too their attention.

Mark

Then in that case, by all means those who think they can make the case that the reviewer in question is really Sarfati put together the case so it can be sent to Amazon. If Amazon's IP log confirms the connection then it can be publized wide and far.

What was the name of the alleged sock-puppet again?

Warcraft3 · 06-03-2003, 07:38 PM

I think you guys should contact Sarfati and ask him about the situation before taking any action. I am sure he will be honest with you if you just ask him. Besides, what do you have to lose by asking him? If he claims it is not him and you find out otherwise, then that is more ammunition to use against him. I just really think that it would be better to first talk to him about the situation directly, and hear what he has to say.

Just a thought........

Russ

ranterjmc · 06-04-2003, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by steadele
I think you guys should contact Sarfati and ask him about the situation before taking any action. I am sure he will be honest with you if you just ask him.

Gosh why didn't we think of that????

We had the silly idea that someone who used a "sock puppet" to endorse his own work might be slightly less than the honest upright guy you've pointed him out to be. Of course - he'll 'fess up straightaway.

Back in the real world we find Sarfati to be a serial liar like all the leading YECs.

Warcraft3 · 06-04-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ranterjmc
Gosh why didn't we think of that????

I really can not read minds so I am unable to answer that question.

Quote:

We had the silly idea that someone who used a "sock puppet" to endorse his own work might be slightly less than the honest upright guy you've pointed him out to be. Of course - he'll 'fess up straightaway.

Let me know what he says after you contact him, I would be interested in hearing the response.

Quote:

Back in the real world we find Sarfati to be a serial liar like all the leading YECs.

Sorry, but the "liar, liar pants on fire" argument has grown very, very old. Both sides continually use this charge of deliberate deception when speaking about the opposing viewpoint. Lets give the personal attacks a rest for a bit, shall we?

Russ

Warcraft3 · 06-04-2003, 07:01 PM

**Notice**
This will be my last post in this thread until sometime after June 22. I have to go away with the Reserves for two weeks and I need tonight and tomorrow to pack and get ready. So I will see you all when I get back.

Russ

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06-02-2003, 12:04 AM	#22
Jackalope Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hayward, CA, USA Posts: 1,675	Some people are missing the point about the "pseudonymous" creationists named. They're using the pseudonym as a sock puppet. The main use for a sockpuppet account is to quote yourself and give yourself support while making it look like some random person has read your work and found it reasonable. Worse, Safarti at least is using sockpuppet accounts to review his own books at Amazon. This is unethical in the extreme. Remine and Turkel have done similar things. This is different from simply using a handle online to protect one's privacy. The intent here is to deceive. Safarti, ReMine and Turkel all quote their own articles using sockpuppet accounts. This is deliberate deception used to help them win debates. If they didn't want their written work examined, they wouldn't be mentioning their own papers every couple posts. So that blows away the argument that they're trying to post without incurring bias. It's simply an attempt to dodge criticism of their work by holding up the sockpuppet ("see, I didn't write that, I just agree with it!"). Added to their habit of reviewing their own books and articles using sockpuppets, I'd hazard the guess that personal privacy has very little to do with their reasons for using pseudonyms.

06-02-2003, 02:02 AM	#23
unregistered_user_1 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just north of here. Posts: 544	Can you give any evidence that Sarfati is reviewing his own books on Amazon? Christ, if that could be proven, boy would it ever bust him up, once it was shown to the Amazon people! Be some problems then when he tries to hawk his books!

06-02-2003, 05:35 PM	#24
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	Maybe it is time to gather the evidence that Sarfati is that guy on Amazon and send it to Amazon asking them to check the IP of both Sarfati and the second review alleged to be Sarfati. It can't hurt. And if they care then they might deactive him. And if they gave us confirmation... Of course the problem is that Amazon may not care. They want a bunch of people giving positive reviews so they can sell books.

06-03-2003, 02:23 PM	#25
MarkW Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,733	Of course the problem is that Amazon may not care. They want a bunch of people giving positive reviews so they can sell books. On this point, it should be noted that when the recent "Mary Rosh" affair came up, and it became known that "Mary Rosh" was just a sock puppet for John Lott, Amazon.com did take down "Mary's" review of Lott's book once a few people brought it too their attention. Mark

06-03-2003, 07:38 PM	#27
Warcraft3 Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: US Posts: 288	I think you guys should contact Sarfati and ask him about the situation before taking any action. I am sure he will be honest with you if you just ask him. Besides, what do you have to lose by asking him? If he claims it is not him and you find out otherwise, then that is more ammunition to use against him. I just really think that it would be better to first talk to him about the situation directly, and hear what he has to say. Just a thought........ Russ

06-04-2003, 07:01 PM	#30
Warcraft3 Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: US Posts: 288	Notice This will be my last post in this thread until sometime after June 22. I have to go away with the Reserves for two weeks and I need tonight and tomorrow to pack and get ready. So I will see you all when I get back. Russ

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