NOGO

Right! I am still waiting.
Believe it or not, DavidH, but I DO have a Bible. In fact I have several. Also, I have read it cover to cover. I hope that you wont be floored by this.

isaac42

He may well be. Most theists are completely incredulous when confronted witht the idea that atheists might have heard their "good news". In their minds, to have heard is to believe. If you've read the Bible and don't believe, then, obviously you took it out of context!

Isaac

diana

Meta ->No, first of all Jesus could not be fiction. It's almost impossible and there is
absolutely no reason to think so.

Secondly, what is so implausible about poetic langaue in a book which is obviously based upon poetic language. ATheists are so illiterate? The most ignroatn idiots in the world! I have never seen a more ignorant or unleanred group of people even in West Texas!

This tickels me, how Metacork gets angry, his lysdexia kicks in full force, he cant spell worth a shite, and accuses us in every breathe of being unleanred, ignroatn idiots.

What a riot.

d

(Edited to fix tags, but also to explain to the mod and admin: I posted this before the admonition not to; however, I don't think Metacrock's spelling should be off-limits when he's accusing us of illiteracy and ignorance. As he has aptly demonstrated, he is fully capable of controlling his dysfunction when he cares to. Plus, I'm a bit pissed that he feels West Texans are stupid.)

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: diana ]</p>

diana

The devil took him there instantaneously, showed him a vision of the kingdoms of the world.
It's the only rational explanation.

True. It's the only rational explanation based upon what we now know, due to the advances of science. Notice how the bible is constantly reinterpreted in light of scientific facts that are indisputable. Ever since that embarrassing Copernicus/Galileo debacle, coincidentally.

But to return to your point, the only rational explanation of the scripture in question based on what the original writers knew is that they meant it literally.

If, however, you insist that God was open with them about astronomy and stuff, since he was dictating His Inspired Word And Shit, then why would he condone their continuing to perpetuate the flat earth myth? Do you suppose that God himself knew that catering to the accepted cosmology for that time might someday be his downfall?

Oh wait. He was testing our faith, wasn't he? Like with the rabbits chewing cud and snakes eating dust thing, I'm guessing.

The truth is, if you read the bible without first assuming it is inspired, you'll find a glaring scientific illiteracy that could only have been perpetuated by a feeble-minded god indeed.

But then, I don't expect anyone who claims that "the earth is immovable, which means it moves" to glean much more from this post than the vague sense that he's being insulted.

d

NOGO

I am still waiting. Going once...

Paradisedreams2

I had to comment here because I myself have posted before about this but I have yet to work it out completely. Before I comment on it I thought you all were talking about the Old testament? I believe but am not certain that in the book of Job it says,

The earth is a sphere which hangs on nothing.

But my study in the book of Genesis has me seeing that the "earth" here speaks of Christ on the cross (as crazy as that may sound).


someone says this...


*** I Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm..."
Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable..."
Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."**

This is speaking of the "foundation" of Christ being laid. In this picture "he" is the earth. If you notice the darkness that came over the earth at the time of the crucifixtion. It was christ himself who (I believe though I'm still looking at this picture) became formless and empty as "this" darkness covered the land. The "Spirit" seen in the first picture of genesis is hoovering over the "waters" (definition of waters is "peoples in Rev.) Just as the Spirit was "given up" at the same time. The two pictures correlate with each other.


Although I believe that picture may be considered a joke here among you guys I just wanted to post what I might see in the picture. There are a few "other" pictures depicting the cross in different ways that show the same exact picture again and again.


Thanks for allowing me to share some of my absurdities

NOGO

Hi Paradisedreams2,

You should not apologize for any opinion that you have. If believers did not enter any debates on this site it would be rather boring. You can only debate with people who disagree with you.

The verse from Job that you are refering to is the following.

I believe that I dealt with this verse in one of my posts in this thread (page 3 at the top).
I will repeat it here; let me know what you think of it.


The "north" in Job 26:7 is used as a synonym for the expanse or firmament.

The verse below shows that the word "north" is a synonym of expanse or firmament.

The following three verse show similar thoughts but with the earth lying on a foundation and NOT "hung on nothing".


Notice that the laying the foundation of the earth and spreading the heavens is often expressed in the same sentence.
So why then Job 26:7 says something different?

In verses below Yahweh himself tells Job that he does not know what he is talking about and that indeed the earth was set on foundations (footings, cornerstone)

So Yahweh straightens Job out. he tells him that he is without knowledge then proceeds to tell him that the earth is set on a foundation.

Sentences like
Who marked off its dimensions?
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone?
clearly indicate that the text is not talking about Jesus. Marking off dimensions and measuring line is about someone building something ... the earth. Notice also "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?" which is a reference to creation in Genesis. No reference to Jesus here.

Personally I believe that the author of the book of Job purposely put 26:7 in Job's mouth so that Yahweh can correct him later in chapter 38. It is a way of humiliating the impetuous human and teach a lesson to the reader.

Also the earth hung on nothing means only that. It does not mean a sphere floating in space. You are reading into it. All Job is saying is that he denies that the earth has any foundation which Yahweh corrects in chanpter 38.

Job still believed the earth to be flat. How do I know? Simple! Just look at the first part of the sentence.

God stretched out the expanse or firmament over the empty place. Now what does that mean.
Compare this with Isaiah 51:12-14, Zech 12:1, Is 48:13

Stretching out the heavens/expanse/firmament is a well established act which God supposed to have accomplished. See my first post in this thread for more info on the tent-like dome of heaven which God stretched. Like many other verses in the Bible Job is saying that God stretched out the heavens. He is talking about the tent-like dome of heaven (see Is 40:22).

It is therefore impossible that Job is talking about a sphere floating in space. A tent-like dome over the earth points to flat earth. You just don`t put a tent-like dome of heaven (or sky, or firmament) over a sphere.

The conclusion is that Job 26:7 is saying that the flat earth is hung on nothing and later Yahweh corrects him.

Paradisedreams2

Norgo,

Your actually correct, I threw that verse in stating sphere from remeberance. I don't know if it was a different version. But I don't think the "earth" is the physical earth its speaking of in the scriptures.

I applaud your efforts in studying and can see where your going. But I'm not up to a scripture study (or debate) in this direction right now.


I'm soooooooooo tired (yawnin... need my rest) Just got done a long post lol! For me anyway. I'll peek in later.

NOGO

Going twice ...

TrueThinker

NOGO,

I understand you may not know toom uch Hebrew, neither do I, but from what I know, the verses you quote about the "heavens" being stretched out are not actually speaking of the "sky" but of the entire universe. The Hebrew words used here are different from the words used to refer to the sky. The verses are actually saying the entire universe has been stretched out.

Clarify something for me. Are you saying that because "the foundations of the earth" are fixed, it implies a flat earth? Please explain.