Ab_Normal

I always wondered how those xians who believe we're predestined to go to heaven or hell (Calvinists?) handle having children. Do they wonder if they (and their children, by extension) are pre-destined for Heaven? Or do they just assume it's so, and proceed with the assurance that'll all turn out okay for them and their kids?

beth

This is actually a good thread. Not to derail things, but I have heard the argument of hell being used by people to justify the death of a young person. They would say something like, God told me that if He didn't take so ans so now, he would lose his faith, stray from god, and go to hell. They made it seem that death was God's mercy.

fatherphil

beth, i'd stay away from those folks.

mike, i think sesible people of any belief system would answer this question the same. if the net result would be negative then no to conception, if positive then yes.
why would you think a Christian's answer to this would be different than an atheist's?

mike_decock

Would Heaven be a place of perfect happiness fo you if you knew your child wasn't there with you?

-Mike...

mike_decock

If the answer is negative, this implies that knowing that the child you would love will suffer is worse than not conceiving the child at all. I think that this would be the position of any loving would-be parent, Christian or not. This would be my position because I could not bear to be the cause of suffering, knowing that I was responsible and could have avoided it.

For me, this understanding of love for a child was unresolvable with my Christian beliefs. If God knows the future, then He knew humanity would suffer before He created the world which exists today. How, then, could God truly be a loving, "Heavenly Father". God could just as easily have chosen not to bring into existence this world, any person who suffers or and person who would causes the suffering of others.

It means that God chose to create a tremendous amount of suffering, something I could not bear to be responsible for.

-Mike...

fatherphil

so i believe its all for a net gain.

Littledrummerboy

Ok, I'll play the game for a bit, I'm sorry for my hastey reply earlier. First it must be established that Hell is just as much a mystery to us as is Heaven. Therefore we do not really know what is in store for those who are going. Some believe it is a place of eternal torment, some believe it is anihilation, I'm not sure where I stand on this. Now if I were to use God as a "standard" because God does have foreknowledge (as was posted earlier, that is accepted in Christian dogma) and he knows who is going to Hell and who is going to Heaven, and he chooses to create them anyway, then I would say, yes I would conceive, because apprently God believe the life he breathes into people to be important enough to live, even if the consequence of that life is torment, or non-existence. If Hell happens to be the latter, non-existence, then the person has lost nothing, they were nothing before God made them, and they are nothing after they die. To answer the question of, "would it be true happiness knowing my children are not with me in Heaven." Well, I have to believe what the Bible says about Heaven. All we really know is that it is a place of eternal happiness, not a happiness of our own creation, but a happiness of God, therefore, I would say yes I would be happy, because Heaven, by it's nature, is happiness, you have no choice but to be happy there, regardless of the situations that happened before you arrived. I have no clue how God will work this, all I can say is that it is above our knowledge, if anything, because we have not been told yet. Thanks

Stephen :notworthy

wildernesse

Still, I am a Christian whether I match the "most" Christians you know or not. Therefore, when you ask a question for Christians, I answer. You previously said:

Which isn't quite true. Sorry to be a pain about it, but far too many people, theist and non, would rather paint Christians all as "_____" (usually a negative quality) and then harp on that, despite the existence of Christians who lack a belief in that or don't react in whatever way is being described.

I haven't replied in many of your threads, but this is my general gripe for most threads that equate Christians with fundies or a particular belief.

--tibac

mike_decock

I considered that position for a long time, the "all things work together for good" type reasoning. I still could not hold this position because, even so, all suffering is still unnecessary and entirely avoidable if God is really a loving creator with knowledge of the future.

-Mike...

Rhea

Which makes me say, "so what's the point in religion?"

If tormenting some people forever makes a net good, then what's the point in worshipping.