Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pescifish · 04-29-2002, 08:06 PM

It hasn't changed my beliefs, but I'm more aware of them.

More than anything else, this site has caused me to be more specific about the language I use to express my beliefs.

I've done some work on my own understanding of the definition of "god", "prayer", "soul", "spiritual".

Tigermilk · 04-30-2002, 04:07 AM

When I first registered on this site, I had a lingering belief that there might be some unnamed, unknown spiritual energy in the Universe that we didn't understand yet. This "force" then might manifest itself and be interpreted by people according to their beliefs.

Initially, I was amazed at the level of discourse at this site (I still am!) - I followed hundreds of the links here, and then links from those links.

I consider my critical thinking skills to have developed immensely due in a good part to this site. Now I want evidence, now I want substantiation, now I want know if this or that is a natural process, could it be faked, has this been examined properly, are the people behind it biased.........and so on.

I suppose I just don't believe in superstitions anymore. Most of them I never did.

jojo-sa · 04-30-2002, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen M:
<strong>I think the title says it all

How many people have changed their beliefs as a result of this site? Do these debates actually convince any people to hold different political views or worldviews?

I was just wondering...</strong>

in other words how many donkeys are on here

those who follow blindly
i like this thread

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: jojo-sa ]</p>

bonduca · 04-30-2002, 04:25 AM

ha ha ha
you vedy funny
donkey you self

Not Prince Hamlet · 04-30-2002, 07:31 AM

jojo-sa is rite

we r al blind

we shud b-leve in his faith

they r not blind at all

hahahaha

bonduca · 04-30-2002, 09:21 AM

I haven't changed my beliefs, but since coming here I'm more comfortable with discussing them.

luvluv · 05-04-2002, 03:48 PM

Would atheism be defined as a person who states that there is no God, or as a person who simply does not believe there is a God. In other words, would a person have to regard the statement that God does not exist to be an absoltuely 100% factual statement to be an atheist, or would a person just have to say "I don't believe there is a God" to be an atheist?

And is an agnostic simply undecided?

As a Christian, ironically, I would say my beliefs have been strengthened on one level and modified on another level. Not just this board, but numerous political boards I post on have convinced me of the futility of trying to convince people with arguments. Regardless of the strength of an argument, people generally believe what they want to believe. They may consider their beliefs to be only the result of evidence, but if confronted with arguments that they cannot refute, they maintain their stance regardless. People generally interpret argument and data with respect to their biases, rather than form their biases as a result of argument and data. After being on this site, I am more convinced of that than ever. I have read arguments (between two atheists, mind you. Not between myself and an atheist) in which one atheist was, by any reasonable standard, soundly defeated in logic and data by another athiest, yet still clung to his original posistion because, though it was undone, it was the one he preferred. So I am a little disillusioned to find that even those that claim to proportion their belief to evidence actually quite often proportion their belief to their own personal preferences.

I am encouraged because I have found that the greatest expression of my relationship with God are not the kind of things that are even arguable. They are quite often incommunicable, or at least not subject to argument. Many of the people with whom I have debated have probably thought that the things I was arguing for represented what was central to me about my faith, or were the reasons I became a Christian. I realize that this perception drives much of a disbelief in Christianity, some disbelievers have no idea what a relationship with God actuall consists of on a day to day basis. I have come to value my everyday relationship with God much more, because this site has helped me to see that that is what is central to Christianity. It has reinforced to me that Christianity is not about a book or about a church, it is about me and God, alone in a room talking to one another. That is it's heart.

The Other Michael · 05-04-2002, 04:14 PM

Hello luvluv,

Quote:

It has reinforced to me that Christianity is not about a book or about a church, it is about me and God, alone in a room talking to one another.

I'd hazard a guess that if all theists took that stance, there'd be a LOT less (if any) need for this forum, as they'd be busy chatting with their god rather than out annoying people.

But don't be surprised if atheists display the same human failings as other people such as having trouble giving up a cherished idea. After all, unlike the president and other USA leaders who have supernatural powers after the NDP, atheists are only human.

cheers,
Michael

ju'iblex · 05-04-2002, 04:55 PM

i grew out of Christianity, i suppose there wasnt really much of an environment where i live to foster it. The only real religious influences i have are one set of my grandparents, devoutly Anglican, religious parephenalia adorns everything in their house. They still give me religious crap, and i wouldnt mind so much if it were quality, im a fan of religious art, but its just pathetic. not even worthy of kitsch rating.

but anyway.

i dont particularly like them much, they present disgusting bigoted views and are really horrible people, so they dont have any positive influence as far as religion goes. My other grandparents are non-practising East Orthodox. i dont even know if they believe in God etc. its never an issue with them.

Resulting from this somewhat mixed marriage of cultures and religion, my parents decided to let me go to Anglican scripture <it was somewhat assumed that all the children would attend it at school> and let me decide for myself.

I eventually grew out of the idea of god around the same time as Santa went, i figured that if one or two of these gift-giving figures that i couldnt see didnt exist, how could god exist?

that was the logic of a 6 or 7 year old, somewhat flawed in retrospection, but it was a foundation at least. and hence you find me here.

Evil Jello · 05-04-2002, 05:34 PM

luvluv:
"Would atheism be defined as a person who states that there is no God, or as a person who simply does not believe there is a God. In other words, would a person have to regard the statement that God does not exist to be an absoltuely 100% factual statement to be an atheist, or would a person just have to say "I don't believe there is a God" to be an atheist?"

Weak atheist: Person that doesnt believe in god

Strong atheist: Person that claim that god doesnt exist

To answer the original question, this site (and a couple of others) convinced me that I was a weak atheist.

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04-29-2002, 08:06 PM	#31
pescifish Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: rural part of los angeles, CA Posts: 4,516	It hasn't changed my beliefs, but I'm more aware of them. More than anything else, this site has caused me to be more specific about the language I use to express my beliefs. I've done some work on my own understanding of the definition of "god", "prayer", "soul", "spiritual".

04-30-2002, 04:07 AM	#32
Tigermilk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jorja, USA Posts: 920	When I first registered on this site, I had a lingering belief that there might be some unnamed, unknown spiritual energy in the Universe that we didn't understand yet. This "force" then might manifest itself and be interpreted by people according to their beliefs. Initially, I was amazed at the level of discourse at this site (I still am!) - I followed hundreds of the links here, and then links from those links. I consider my critical thinking skills to have developed immensely due in a good part to this site. Now I want evidence, now I want substantiation, now I want know if this or that is a natural process, could it be faked, has this been examined properly, are the people behind it biased.........and so on. I suppose I just don't believe in superstitions anymore. Most of them I never did.

04-30-2002, 04:25 AM	#34
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	ha ha ha you vedy funny donkey you self

04-30-2002, 07:31 AM	#35
Not Prince Hamlet Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,309	jojo-sa is rite we r al blind we shud b-leve in his faith they r not blind at all hahahaha

04-30-2002, 09:21 AM	#36
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	I haven't changed my beliefs, but since coming here I'm more comfortable with discussing them.

05-04-2002, 03:48 PM	#37
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	Would atheism be defined as a person who states that there is no God, or as a person who simply does not believe there is a God. In other words, would a person have to regard the statement that God does not exist to be an absoltuely 100% factual statement to be an atheist, or would a person just have to say "I don't believe there is a God" to be an atheist? And is an agnostic simply undecided? As a Christian, ironically, I would say my beliefs have been strengthened on one level and modified on another level. Not just this board, but numerous political boards I post on have convinced me of the futility of trying to convince people with arguments. Regardless of the strength of an argument, people generally believe what they want to believe. They may consider their beliefs to be only the result of evidence, but if confronted with arguments that they cannot refute, they maintain their stance regardless. People generally interpret argument and data with respect to their biases, rather than form their biases as a result of argument and data. After being on this site, I am more convinced of that than ever. I have read arguments (between two atheists, mind you. Not between myself and an atheist) in which one atheist was, by any reasonable standard, soundly defeated in logic and data by another athiest, yet still clung to his original posistion because, though it was undone, it was the one he preferred. So I am a little disillusioned to find that even those that claim to proportion their belief to evidence actually quite often proportion their belief to their own personal preferences. I am encouraged because I have found that the greatest expression of my relationship with God are not the kind of things that are even arguable. They are quite often incommunicable, or at least not subject to argument. Many of the people with whom I have debated have probably thought that the things I was arguing for represented what was central to me about my faith, or were the reasons I became a Christian. I realize that this perception drives much of a disbelief in Christianity, some disbelievers have no idea what a relationship with God actuall consists of on a day to day basis. I have come to value my everyday relationship with God much more, because this site has helped me to see that that is what is central to Christianity. It has reinforced to me that Christianity is not about a book or about a church, it is about me and God, alone in a room talking to one another. That is it's heart.

05-04-2002, 04:55 PM	#39
ju'iblex Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Australia and beyond the realms of Gehenna Posts: 6,035	i grew out of Christianity, i suppose there wasnt really much of an environment where i live to foster it. The only real religious influences i have are one set of my grandparents, devoutly Anglican, religious parephenalia adorns everything in their house. They still give me religious crap, and i wouldnt mind so much if it were quality, im a fan of religious art, but its just pathetic. not even worthy of kitsch rating. but anyway. i dont particularly like them much, they present disgusting bigoted views and are really horrible people, so they dont have any positive influence as far as religion goes. My other grandparents are non-practising East Orthodox. i dont even know if they believe in God etc. its never an issue with them. Resulting from this somewhat mixed marriage of cultures and religion, my parents decided to let me go to Anglican scripture <it was somewhat assumed that all the children would attend it at school> and let me decide for myself. I eventually grew out of the idea of god around the same time as Santa went, i figured that if one or two of these gift-giving figures that i couldnt see didnt exist, how could god exist? that was the logic of a 6 or 7 year old, somewhat flawed in retrospection, but it was a foundation at least. and hence you find me here.

05-04-2002, 05:34 PM	#40
Evil Jello Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Gatineau Canada Posts: 18	luvluv: "Would atheism be defined as a person who states that there is no God, or as a person who simply does not believe there is a God. In other words, would a person have to regard the statement that God does not exist to be an absoltuely 100% factual statement to be an atheist, or would a person just have to say "I don't believe there is a God" to be an atheist?" Weak atheist: Person that doesnt believe in god Strong atheist: Person that claim that god doesnt exist To answer the original question, this site (and a couple of others) convinced me that I was a weak atheist.

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