Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 11-09-2002, 09:10 AM

I have concluded that Mother Teresa had worked one big miracle: she had created an image of herself as being a great humanitarian.

However, that is not a miracle that the Vatican is likely to consider as evidence of sainthood.

Bloop · 11-12-2002, 01:49 AM

Kama, are you still out there ? Are you going to post anything more ?

thebeave · 11-12-2002, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
The biggest problem I have personally found with the Mother Teresa claims is that allegedly tending to the spiritual nature of the poor and dieing must include the continuance of their physical and mental suffering. I personally think it is cruel to allow a person to needlessly suffer physically and emotionally when it is possible to eliminate or eleviate that pain in order to make the remaining time on this Earth more bearable. I try to think of how I would want to be treated in such a situation. What if I were homeless, and dieing of some horrible disease? What if there was food the feed my starving body but it was withheld in order to increase my physical suffering because someone believed this would bring me closer to God? Would allowing me to starve actually have that effect, especially if I was born of a different faith or would it cause me to resent this God and damn him for allowing me to continue to suffer? Would I be likely to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior? If there was medicine that could quell the pain or even cure my illness so that I may live, and yet it was withheld so that I may continue to suffer for God … what would that do for my love of this foreign God? What if my bed was a dirty, cold, floor but it could be a warn, clean bed and it was withheld to extend my suffering? What if my wounds were left to fester when medical treatment could be given in order to increase my suffering for God? Would you allow someone to treat your child in this manner? Do the poor, indigent, sick and dieing men, women and children of India have the options you and I have? What voice do they have and do their weakened bodies and minds have the ability to speak out against this humiliation and inhumane, cruel and unusual punishment? Aren’t they being punished for being born into this circumstance?

If I were in that circumstance I would hope for the mercy and compassion of those who could help. I would hope for a warm meal, a soft bed, a salve to sooth my wounds even if only for a short period of time. I would hope that someone would give me the dignity of an end filled with as little pain as my condition warranted, perhaps a gentle touch … but not to be left to rot in a cess pool, infested with flies, filth and being injected with substances from dirty syringes that only made my condition worse through infection. Would I want my child to live like those children? Would I want my child to die this way? As a mother I would do all in my power to soothe my loved one, to minimize the pain, to comfort and love them in their last days. I would want to make that time as peaceful as possible and I would certainly NOT allow that person to suffer in needlessly disgusting conditions. I would not allow my family pet to die in such an indignant manner and I dare say any one with half a heart can actually believe that such circumstances are good or even worth of human dignity.

Wouldn’t it serve God’s mission more if these men and women were fed, clothed, given a clean, warm, safe place to sleep, to be cared for and have their wounds mended? Where is the compassion of Jesus in Mother Teresa’s actions? Did she actually help these men, women and children or did she simply collect the suffering, poor and dieing and increase their pain by withholding food, clothing, medicine and adequate shelter in her crusade to win souls for her God? Why can the cruelty of her actions NOT be seen? Put your place in that of one of those lepers, AIDS patients or orphans and then tell us that this would bring you closer to God.

Brighid

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> And I'd give you a thousand more if I could

brighid · 11-12-2002, 07:41 AM

thebeave,

Thanks!

Brighid

LordSnooty · 11-12-2002, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corgan Sow:

For crack's sakes, she dared to do things very few or none will do; live like a vagrant while caring for scavangers eaten alive by flies. Stop insulting her just because she worshipped Jesus! It's not funny, it's fucking childish, and a deep shame to atheists and freethinkers.

I cannot believe I just read the above paragraph.

Paul

Arrowman · 11-12-2002, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordSnooty:
I cannot believe I just read the above paragraph.

Paul

In fairness to Corgan, you should read the rest of the thread. He has acknowledged the explanations given by others and he now understands the "anti-MT" school of thought; and that it's not "because she worships Jesus".

Corgan is/was no different from any other person who hasn't read the damning truth about MT. I used to think that way myself. You don't see it in the mainstream media.

LordSnooty · 11-12-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:

In fairness to Corgan, you should read the rest of the thread. He has acknowledged the explanations given by others and he now understands the "anti-MT" school of thought; and that it's not "because she worships Jesus".

Corgan is/was no different from any other person who hasn't read the damning truth about MT. I used to think that way myself. You don't see it in the mainstream media.

You're right, which is why I didn't say anything else. I was mostly shocked by the ferocity of it.

Paul

Arrowman · 11-12-2002, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordSnooty:
You're right, which is why I didn't say anything else. I was mostly shocked by the ferocity of it.

Fair enough. Although you are right that the wording was "ferocious", it is IMHO also true that the underlying sentiment is one which many people in the community have - even those who are not strongly religious/Catholic. Try saying something disparaging about Mother Teresa in a group sometime and see how some people react. It's a classic "Emperor has no clothes" situation made worse by the uncritical support / worship the community has for religious people.

lpetrich · 11-12-2002, 06:03 PM

Here's <a href="http://mw.mcmaster.ca/scriptorium/genevieve.html" target="_blank">a fuller account of St. Genevieve</a>, miracles and all; other accounts I've found have downplayed or omitted her miracles.

Now why haven't Mother Teresa and her nuns shown Genevieve-like healing ability? Their patients could have used it.

It was from <a href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~neils/renaissance/caxton.htm" target="_blank">William Caxton's press</a>, from around 1476, so it will be a bit worse than King James English.

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11-09-2002, 09:10 AM	#91
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I have concluded that Mother Teresa had worked one big miracle: she had created an image of herself as being a great humanitarian. However, that is not a miracle that the Vatican is likely to consider as evidence of sainthood.

11-12-2002, 01:49 AM	#92
Bloop Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Kama, are you still out there ? Are you going to post anything more ?

11-12-2002, 07:41 AM	#94
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	thebeave, Thanks! Brighid

11-12-2002, 06:03 PM	#99
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Here's <a href="http://mw.mcmaster.ca/scriptorium/genevieve.html" target="_blank">a fuller account of St. Genevieve</a>, miracles and all; other accounts I've found have downplayed or omitted her miracles. Now why haven't Mother Teresa and her nuns shown Genevieve-like healing ability? Their patients could have used it. It was from <a href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~neils/renaissance/caxton.htm" target="_blank">William Caxton's press</a>, from around 1476, so it will be a bit worse than King James English.

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