Evangelion

Same here.

Deke

Theophilus: Your earlier post implied that the "ultimate" question is how we treat others.

I didn’t say this is the “ultimate” question (I don’t imagine such a thing as an ultimate question exists), I said it was the most important question. Perhaps I can soften this to say it is a very important question.

Theophilus: If your death is the end of your existence, then it matters not a whit how you treated others or how they treated you.

Trust me Theo, when you open a door for someone, when you smile at a child, when you offer a hand in any way, when you offer compassion instead of judgment, it matters.

MHO,

Deke

Disciple

Thank you for your observations...

QUOTE---You cannot love ANYTHING that you NEED.

REPLY---This is a bold statement. Do you mean me specifically, or humans in general? What do you base this on? Oh, and why is this the case? I will not directly contradict you here, just wanna reach a deeper understanding of your position.

This is how I see it. We are children of God, everyone of us....As children of God, we are dependant on god for our very existence and for our salvation. I do love god, very much....i love his love, his beauty, his amazing gift of grace to me and the fact that despite my sin, I am saved. However, I do need him, as do we all..If these two things conflict to you, then we have an issue here...try Ravi Zacharias's book...."can man live without god"...

First though lets get to brass tacks...before deciding whether i can love and need at the same time, please explain your definition of love...

I eagerly await your response...

Mageth

If we're all indeed god's children, and dependent on him for our very existence, why do we need "salvation"? From what do we need salvation?

I ask as a father; I don't understand how a loving father could have such a relationship with his children that somehow demanded some kind of "salvation" for his children before he would accept them.

Evangelion

Ourselves. Surely the history of the human species itself should be enough to tell you that.

Well if you're going to misrepresent the Christian soteriological schema, of course it'll be difficult to understand.

You see, it's not a case of God demanding salvation. That doesn't even make sense. Salvation is not something we need before He will accept us; it's something He gives us as a result of accepting Him, and it's even offered before we've made up our minds on the subject.

Mageth

Ourselves. Surely the history of the human species itself should be enough to tell you that.

The only thing that's gonna save us from ourselves, if that needs doing, is ourselves; the history of the human species should be enough to tell you that.

Well if you're going to misrepresent the Christian soteriological schema, of course it'll be difficult to understand.

You see, it's not a case of God demanding salvation. That doesn't even make sense.

First, tell me how I'm misrepresenting the Christian soteriological schema. It is the way I understand it, and no it doesn't make sense.

Salvation is not something we need before He will accept us; it's something He gives us as a result of accepting Him, and it's even offered before we've made up our minds on the subject.

I don't see how that's any different than what I said.

And if we make up our minds the wrong way, not according to the Father's wishes, and don't accept him, what is our fate?

Once again, as a father, the whole God as Father thing doesn't make sense. I accept my child no matter whether he "accepts" me or not. I require or offer no kind of "salvation" for him. And gee whiz, at least I'm actually around to be accepted by him, and am not some absentee father that the child has never seen.

PopeInTheWoods

Replace "Germans" with "xians", and you could be talking about the Wholly Babble....

Disciple

We need salvation from the sin that is causing a seperation between us and God. God does not demand salvation, but offers it freely as a gift to us. He hurts deeply when we walk away from this gift, because all God wants is to be in a relationship with us....

I too am a father, and respectfully ask you to visit the following link to get a better understanding of how God really feels about us...

http://www.fathersloveletter.com/flltextenglish.html

ju'iblex

what sin, what is sin, what is sinful.
what salvation, what is this supposed salvation, why do we need it.
what seperation.
where is god, what is god, which god, why only that god.

~*Take my gift*~ or BURN MOTHERFUCKER, BURN!



kinda like that abusive ex-partner who lets your tires down when you're sleeping and puts sugar in the petrol tank, huh?
"how God really feels about us." Active voice, indicative verb, suggests fact not opinion. proof please. "I too am a father." big deal, plenty of atheists are fathers too. "God wants." another indicative verb i see, but God does seem to want a lot of shit in that book....

Disciple

QUOTE---what sin, what is sin, what is sinful.

REPLY---Lust, Wrath, etc etc, seperation from God, all actions which lead to a seperation from God.

QUOTE---Take my gift or burn mot*******

REPLY---You have the wrong end of the stick here. God only confirms the choices you have made during your life. If you wanted no relationship with God during life, why want one afterwards?

QUOTE---"I too am a father." big deal, plenty of atheists are fathers too.

REPLY---Sorry, but you COMPLETELY missed the point.