Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gemma Therese · 08-10-2002, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B.Shack:

There's scientific evidence that tobacco causes cancer. There's no scienfific evidence for Roman Catholic mumbo jumbo.

"I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun -- not only because I can see it, but because by it I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis

Proxima Centauri · 08-10-2002, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:


I would assume none of you attend Catholic Mass weekly, or recieve Communion during the Easter season, or attend Confession at least annually.

Now you know, you're in a state of mortal sin. You can't plead ignorance. And becuase you do not believe it to be a mortal sin, it does not lose its seriousness.

Gemma Therese

You haven't answered my points. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> If God loves us, why did he create hell? Why did God create people who, he as an omniscient being, knew would die in mortal sin?

I don't know that I'm in mortal sin through failing to take part in Mass, Confession, Communion etc. I don't believe the mumbo jumbo. Are non-Catholic Christians who fail to take part in those Roman Catholic practices also in a continuous state of mortal sin? Will your all-loving God condem the overwhelming majority of mankind to hell simply because they were born into non-Catholic families and never believed there was any need or virtue in these practices?

As I already said few of us on the Sec Web expect Roman Catholics or other Christians to be logical.

Eudaimonist · 08-10-2002, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
"I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun -- not only because I can see it, but because by it I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis

Then use your critical thinking skills and your sight to present a rational case for the existence of hell.

Proxima Centauri · 08-10-2002, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B.Shack:
[QB]

Try praying instead for your 'Holy Catholic Church'. Pray that those criminal priests will stop touching up little boys and girls. Pray that they will come to a true and lasting repentance, or a healthly fear of what the law could do to them.

Pray also for those criminals higher up in your most Christian Church. Pray for those who cover up the offences of paedophile priests while yet more children are damaged pray that they will come to a true and lasting repentance.
Those who cover up offences are arguably more guilty than the paedophile priests. The paedophiles are sometimes in the grip of a compulsion which makes them very dangerous but may give some excuse. Those who cover up the offences do not suffer from the same compulsion.
On second thoughts they may also suffer from a compulsion. They have been brainwashed by long term membership of the Catholic Church. This stops them seeing moral issues the way non-Catholics or non-Christians see them.

Discuss paedophile priests with other Catholics in your congregation and ask them to add their prayers to yours to make the prayers stronger. It matters. The children are suffering. You believe prayer can help improve things.
Will your prayers do any good? From a theological point of view I don't know, I'm an agnostic.

From a practical point of view I'm sure it will do good. The Eminent Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops show little sign of caring what happens to the children.

They will care if priestly paedophilia is widely discussed and is bringing the Church into disrepute.

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]

QB]

Are you going to explain away the many sins against children by your virtuous church, oh saintly Gemma Theresa?

These sins should be mortal by your reckoning. All civilized adults know paedophilia is gravely wrong. All civilized adults know failing to stop paedophilia when one knows its happening is gravely wrong.
Paedophiles (including paedophile priests?) are usually in denial about the harm they do. Perhaps Bishops etc who condone paedophile priests are also in denial as its all done within the wonderful holy Church.
Perhaps you'll try to excluse the Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals etc by saying they're in denial. You won't excuse us failing to attend mass, communion, confession etc. Who among those loyal to the Roman Catholic Church will help the child victims of paedophile priests? <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Proxima Centauri · 08-10-2002, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eudaimonist:


Then use your critical thinking skills and your sight to present a rational case for the existence of hell.

Good point, Eudaimonist

I don't suppose she can answer it.

Gemma Therese · 08-10-2002, 07:21 AM

B. Shack, because you do not hold a place of authority within thew Roman Catholic Church, you cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.

But you are capable of learning about Catholic theology, with an open mind, converting, and attending the Sacraments.

Gemma Therese

PS. Ever think about how many women stay with a man whom she knows is abusing her children?

Gemma Therese · 08-10-2002, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B.Shack:


Good point, Eudaimonist

I don't suppose she can answer it.

The existence of evil.

Gemma Therese

Eudaimonist · 08-10-2002, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
The existence of evil.

Okay, how does the existence of evil show that hell exists? Can't evil exist without hell?

Proxima Centauri · 08-10-2002, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:


"I believe in Christianity as I believe in the sun -- not only because I can see it, but because by it I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis

I believe in the scientific method because it helps me to see other things as they are. The scientific method gives me reason to believe in the sun, I can see it.
I see no rational reason to believe Christianity. Christianity is contrary to reason in many ways. Christians must deny the validity of human reason. HOW CAN THERE BE THREE SEPARATE BEINGS EVER ONE GOD AND UNDIVIDED? You're so terrified of hell you can't see logic. Then you try to make us as neurotic as you are. You're a dangerous friend.

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]

Gemma Therese · 08-10-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B.Shack:


I believe in the scientific method because it helps me to see other things as they are. The scientific method gives me reason to believe in the sun, I can see it.
I see no rational reason to believe Christianity. Christianity is contrary to reason in many ways. Christians must deny the validity of human reason. HOW CAN THERE BE THREE SEPARATE BEINGS EVER ONE GOD AND UNDIVIDED? You're so terrified of hell you can't see logic. Then you try to make us as neurotic as you are. You're a dangerous friend.

There is more to life than reason.

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]

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08-10-2002, 07:21 AM	#126
Gemma Therese Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: new york Posts: 608	B. Shack, because you do not hold a place of authority within thew Roman Catholic Church, you cannot be held morally responsible for their actions. But you are capable of learning about Catholic theology, with an open mind, converting, and attending the Sacraments. Gemma Therese PS. Ever think about how many women stay with a man whom she knows is abusing her children?

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