lpetrich

One serious problem is where the non-fundie churches stand. They seem remarkably unwilling to stand up for themselves and be counted. If they do not want to be stereotyped as semiliterate snake handlers, then why do they let the semiliterate snake handlers get all the publicity and do all the lobbying?

KC

Because they secretly wish evolution would go away too.

Cheers,

KC

GreggLD1

I don't think I'd blame democracy. It probably has a lot more to do with capitalism and Madison Avenue.

And ultimately it comes right down to individuals. In a democratic society, individuals have to take responsibility for setting high standards for themselves. Democracy can't survive if people refuse to be responsible.

Gregg

Clutch

Because virtually all Christians of every degree and kind secretly fear that they do not take their faith seriously enough for God's tastes. So they have a grudging respect or tolerance for any behaviour that seems to be motivated by a deeper engagement with faith than their own, even when it amounts to vulgarianism and buffoonery.

[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Clutch ]</p>

GreggLD1

Paul Kurtz addressed this issue in Free Inquiry magazine a few months ago. The common explanation, that America was "settled by religious fanatics," isn't really accurate. Yeah, quite a few minority religious groups came over to escape persecution by the majority religious establishment, but most people came over just to escape persecution, period. They were fed up with Church AND State.

For quite a while Americans were actually LESS religious and more skeptical, down-to-earth, common-sense folks than Europeans. In the late 19th century, much of mainstream Christianity in America seemed to be on a progressive path, seeking to move away from dogmatism and adapt to scientific discoveries. Then the fundamentalist movement arose in reaction to this, and things were set back for a few decades.

Meanwhile, Europe suffered through the Great War, which destroyed an entire generation and led to widespread disillusionment and the rejection, or at least the severe weakening, of traditional institutions. Then came the Depression, followed by WW2, which devastated Europe all over again and pretty much "locked in" disillusionment with Protestant and Catholic Christianity, both of which had failed to take a strong stand against the Nazis, and with the whole notion of divine mercy, protection, providence, etc.

On the other hand, the United States went through WWs 1 and 2 relatively unscathed and came out of both conflicts even stronger and richer than before. This led to a sense of being blessed, special, "chosen." And of course, there was the face-off with the "Godless" commies, which led directly to the addition of "In God We Trust" to the money and "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance."

Science made a comeback in the late 50's after the Russians launched Sputnik, but once we beat the Russians to the Moon, people got bored with that. Finally, the counterculture excesses of the 60's and 70's naturally spawned a conservative counter-counterculture, and by the late 70's/early 80's the popularity of fundamentalism--and creationism--was on the rise again.

So, basically, we Americans haven't abandoned religious fantasies because we haven't really been given any reason to. Our lives have generally been pretty good no matter what we believe or do, so many of us just indulge themselves in mental silliness. When what we believe starts having a direct effect on our living standards or our very survival--or if our beliefs fail to get us through a grave national crisis--that might change.

Gregg

crocodile deathroll

That's nicely put. Just one more thing, evangelists like Billy Graham also discovered the attraction of large sporting stadiums and Pavlovian conditioning sporting stadiums have on the American people. So he just thought he could put himself in place of Jeo DiMaggio or Hank Aaron and draw the same crowds.
After this is in a ball game stadium so it must be good.

Tom Sawyer

I think that Gregg got it right when he said:

It really doesn't affect people's lives one way or the other if they believe or don't believe. I work with a bunch of Christians, both fundies and liberal ones and all of our lives are pretty much the same. It doesn't make a difference.

So a man doesn't believe in evolutionary biology? Big deal. A scientist in the next state does and applies the exact same concepts to creating newer, better drugs to treat illness and when the man gets sick, he takes those drugs and gets better. The fact that he rejects the ideas that brought about the creation of those drugs is totally irrelevant.

Some people want to believe in Mormanism, some in Libertarianism, some in ESP. I haven't seen any statistics to indicate that their lives are better or worse as a result of any of their beliefs. When the consequences don't matter, the actions that lead up to them don't matter either.

I used to work next to a guy who believed that the Earth was only a few thousand years old, because that's how the Biblical timeline worked out. He came up with all these crazy ideas to justify how that was so. He and I made exactly as much money and did exactly the same thing. Having all these wierd beliefs didn't negatively affect him at all (side note: that really bugged me and I always thought it should have affected him). It made him happy to have his faith "scientifically justified" (his words) and didn't do him any harm at all, so there was absolutely no reason for him to change those beliefs.

It could be argued that the country's future will be compromised if people don't think critically, etc but that isn't important. People don't base their actions on what the effect will be in fifty years, but on what the effect will be right now. When there's no difference in the effects of belief and lack of belief, why bother to think critically?

galiel

I think people are over complicating things. Creationism is rife in the USA because people are not educated to think critically and they are given a poor grounding science and we have an anti-intellectual prevailing sentiment at present.

Education is the key.

Principia

But, the Creationists/IDiots recognize this too. What can you do when they work through political activism to control school boards? See... not so uncomplicated after all...

Grumpy

Bear in mind that anti-evolutionism has had different rationales through the ages. William Jennings Bryan, for example, opposed evolution because he felt the Gilded Age tycoons used it to justify oppressing the poor. More recently, we've seen African-American politicians denounce Darwin for his racism (or European elitism, if you wish).

I'm not sure if it's the full reason, but Kurtz's Cold War theory can explain why Henry Morris surfaced when he did.