stretch

It's not what the largest xian 'denomination' teaches ....

Hawkingfan

There is no need to be so obtuse.

"Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37)
The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5). "Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29) Note: These verses distinguish between warfare against pagans, and against Jews and Christians.[17]
"...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5); "murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123).
"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)
"Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).
"Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).
"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73).
"slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34).
"for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22)

Hawkingfan

Yes I did show that it is in the Koran.

stretch

Hi Hawkingfan,

How come I can't be obtuse?

Anyway, pulling single out-of-context sentences from a variety of places in a book makes it hard for me to tell what is being said. That's why I would prefer to see something from a Muslim scholar who actually has some experience dealing with the Koran. Like most religions, Islam uses a combination of a holy text and traditions to tie together some sort of internally consistent (from their perspective) theology.

Hawkingfan

stretch,
You have no evidence or any convincing logical argument to support your belief in the J/C god over any other *mythology*. You have no proof that the existence of a mythology that contradicts Christianity is false.
You said that you know very little of Islam but are obsessed with claiming that it is not opposed to Christianity, something that is easily disproven.

stretch

And I never said I did have any evidence.

And I never said I did have any proof.

And I never said that Islam does not have interpretations of God/Allah that are in contradiction to Christian or Jewish intperpretation of the nature of God/Allah.

All I have basically said is that all 3 are monotheistic religions that differ over their views of a single God. And if there is a single God, there can't be two or three or 'n' single Gods.

Hawkingfan

That's your problem.
I don't have to satisfy any of your ridiculous preferences. And if you require such pettiness, you have no business in taking part in this discussion. Read the Koran.
And yet it is not clear to you what that would be. Fascinating.

Hawkingfan

Do you?
Do you?
And?
So why are you taking part in this discussion?

stretch

If you don't want me to take part in the conversation, why do you keep asking questions of me? :banghead:

Vicar Philip

Don't mean to take away from stretch and Hawkingfan's interesting exchange, but this tidbit from ER caught my eye.

Phrases like "the Spirit sealed me in His redemption in eternity" just come across like classic legal-ese, or, something I'm surely guilty of, engineering-ese. What is the meaning of that phrase? How does one get "sealed" in "redemption" in "eternity?" I guess it does kind of roll off the tongue, and sounds good to a sleepy Sunday-morning congregation.

However, in the skeptic's harsh light of day, it transforms into just another trite religious phrase with no real meaning. Certainly doesn't convince ME of the existence of a holy spirit.

Carry on.