The Other Michael

echidna,

Which feeling? Loving humanity with its faults, or mourning any loss of life?

I'd probably have to say that I like, not love, humanity, and would like it a lot better if it would ditch a bunch of the faults. And while I can mourn any loss of life, those whose deaths are very distant are mourned more on an intellectual basis, and the depth of the mourning is not very great when compared with someone with who I've got more of an involvement.

I fail to see how that qualifies me as anti-social.

People have, I think, a limited wellspring of emotional energy. If you start gnashing your teeth and rending your clothes over the individual death of everyone dying around the world every second, you'll soon exhaust those emotional reserves.

Not to mention being to busy to get anything else done with your life.

cheers,
Michael

echidna

Well from your first paragraph it doesn’t in my book. My comment is mainly towards vir, whose posting style seems to want to promote that no sorrow is necessary.

One can associate the concept with spheres of emotional attachment.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: echidna ]</p>

Mageth

And while I can mourn any loss of life, those whose deaths are very distant are mourned more on an intellectual basis, and the depth of the mourning is not very great when compared with someone with who I've got more of an involvement.

I think that holds true for most of us.

For example, the example given of the sudden death of all New Zealanders would affect me emotionally, no doubt, more than the sudden death of one, a few dozen, or even a few hundred New Zealanders. However, if someone very close to me, esp. my son, was to suddenly die, I would be affected far more deeply even than by the death of all New Zealanders.

I think that's just basic human nature.

southernhybrid

If we feel emotion over the loss of those we never knew personally, I would call it empathy, the ability to understand what another feels, or being sensitive to the experience of another. I tend to think this is more a hardwired part of the emotional aspects of the human brain or perhaps it is a combination of both nature and nurture as are so many other behaviors. Personally, I can clearly remember having empathy from the time I was about two years old, even though that was over fifty years ago. Empathy can be a strength or a weakness depending on the situation. As I've matured I've learned to channel my empathy productivly.

Let's say when we witness the account of the deaths of one or many strangers we may empathize as we consider our own death, or consider the grief we would feel if we were the loved ones of the dead. Our empathy might inspire us to lend a hand to the survivors or if we worked in a rescue and recovery profession, it might deter us from being able to perform our job.


For example, while most of us did not lose anyone close on Sept 11th, most Americans as well as others, had great empathy for those who perished during the tragedy as well as for those that survived the tragedy. That empathy inspired many people to contribute funds or volunteer to help with the aftermath of the event.

If you can't experience empathy, perhaps your brain is just lacking that component. As more research is done in the areas of both cognitve science and nueroscience, it is becoming more evident that much of what makes us emotional beings is influenced by our brain as well as our environment.

I think that religious training is irrelevant here. When I was two, I had never been to a church and my parents were not religious but I would cry easily over a sad story or song as well as when I saw an animal or person suffer. Even at that early age, I was capable of empathy. I think that is fairly universal to some extent. I think however that if one is constantly subjected to tragic situations, one may lose the ability to empathize.


Btw, Vir, are you aware that some monkeys are capable of empathy? I can't reference it just now, maybe Carl Sagan's Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, but in a study where monkeys were offered a food reward for pulling a lever, they deferred pulling the lever once they learned that doing so caused an electric shock to another monkey of their kind. The other monkey was not a relative or part of their troop. Empathy has been a part of our experience dating back to our early primate relatives.

tronvillain

Why have feelings for the dead? For the simple reason that we have memories of them - someone we knew is now absent from our lives, and we miss having them around.

Now, if everyone in New Zealand died, I wouldn't mourn their deaths, but I would worry about the effect on the word's economy, regret the loss of the possibility of every interacting with someone from New Zealand, empathize with those living who did know people in New Zealand, and sympathize with with those who longer experience life.

Megusic

If everyone in New Zealand were to die, I would probaly feel the devastation, even though I don't know anyone. What if one of them, had they lived, would have ended up curing cancers, AIDS, or just generally doing something good for the world. It would suck that all that potential would suddenly be gone from our world, and that would make me sad. The same goes when any person dies - it makes me sad to think of the things they could have accomplished. If it is someone I know personally, I am sad for ME, because from then on, I know I will never again be able to enjoy that person's company, share a joke, conversation, or cup of coffee.

Vir, how do YOU react when someone you love dies?

abe smith

Well, VIR: you can disdain to have feelings for the dead,if you like; of course, the dead are dead and "know not any thing". Whatever feelings or thoughts I may (choose to) have about those (who were) dear to me in life are none of your business; and my reasons for my feelings/thoughts are none of your business either; I don't have to justify any of my behaviours to you. This comment is benign & nonaggressive.

The Other Michael

Of course, those dead people could have turned out to be genocidal maniacs too, in which case we're better off without them.

So regretting "lost potential" comes out kind of a wash in the end if we presume good/bad has a fairly standard bell-curve distribution in a population.

cheers,
Michael

brighid

Why mourn the loss of life? Well, because I value my own as well as the lives of others, and the death or senseless killing of another causes me to feel an empathetic pain. I am a mother and I am profoundly affected by the death of children because of the depth of my love for my own child. I imagine the pain that the parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. must be experiencing and it allows me a moment to think of how I would feel and deal with such a tragedy. Those losses remind me to be a bit more cautious and to cherish the time I have right now with my loved ones. I am also empathetic to the joys of others, as I can relate to those joys as well or perhaps because I have no personal frame of reference for that experience I am able to experience that joy vicariously. It may also allow you the opportunity to comfort or help heal the pain of another person.

I realize that death is a natural part of life and that someday all those whom I love will no longer exist. That knowledge reminds me to live in the present moment and enjoy what I have while I have the ability to enjoy it. I feel empathy is a very important human quality and it what motivates people to do good and refrain from harming others. It is the derivative of the ancient adage of doing onto others … I also believe it allows one to connect with others on a more personal level during the many journeys of this life. We are social creatures and we need human interaction to flourish and be healthy and therefore I feel it is important to attempt to connect with others during loss, joy, pain, etc. It may only be on an intellectual level, or it may be at a more personal, deeply emotional level depending on the situation.

I know that my life would continue if I lost my child, or my husband but I also know that the pain of that loss would be immeasurable and I would be forever changed. I would sorely miss their unique presence in my life and my interaction with them. I hope we are all able to live full lives and enjoy each other for many, many years to come.


b

Jamie_L

Feelings "for the dead" are really for the living. For us, if we've been effected. Also for the greater community, as such empathy is the foundation for successful human, communal interaction.

Why have feelings for the living? Why have feelings at all? It's all trivial, right?

But we're humans. We all live together. And these are the tools we have to make it happen.

Jamie