Peter Kirby

That's certainly a leading question. It sounds rather like an argument with a question mark: if some Gnostics believed that Jesus was not a physical person, then all accounts of Jesus as a physical person are false. Is that an argument that you wish to make?

best,
Peter Kirby

mark9950

depending on when the savior in the flesh parts were written(before or after paul or maybe even a different sect than what paul believed).

As I understand it jesus was rarely mentioned in the OT as a messiah to become a human sacrifice for sin,since that is the case paul I would assume believed the the OT religion(or maybe a different religion,depending on how many religions were there at the time) which has animal sacrifices for sin instead of a jesus human sacrifice.

Also paul and james tend to disagree on how salvation is acquired.

Paul believes that salvation is by faith in jesus christ?

Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.


James believes that it is by works.

James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

So unless these are part of the forged writings than what was jesus christ to them.It could sound like two different religions to me.

Ted Hoffman

Paul was Gnostic.
Gnosis means knowledge (hidden knowledge). A gnostic is one who knows.
Gnostics relied largely on revelation as a source of knowledge and their worldview was dualistic. There are two worlds: one inhabited by humans and one inhabited by gods. There is a good god and a bad god and these gods are forever battling for the souls of humans. The spirit can ascend to be with the gods as soon as its free from the flesh.
Salvation is obtained by learning the magic words (the mystery - the knowledge) which allow one ('s spirit) to ascend and be with the good gods. There is a liberator who is sent down to give people these magic words.

Other forms of gnosticism have God making the virgin Sophia pregnant to give birth to Demuigre - an inferior creator-god. God remains unknowable to ordinary folks.

Gnostics look at christ not as a saviour or judge, but as a liberator/ intermediary - through whom people know god. He liberates people from the flesh. Gnostics generally taught docetism, practiced asceticism and celibacy.

Gnostic sects included the Basilidians, Ophites, Carpocratians, Mandaeanism, the Bogomils, Valentinians, Manichaenism etc
see gnosticism

Paul had gnostic leanings and was not openly gnostic compared to notable gnostics like Simon Magnus, Leucius Charinus, Menander, Saturninus ,Monoimus ,Carpocrates and his wife Alexandra ,Bardaisan of Edessa ,Ptolemy and Colorbasus
Valentinus aka Valentinius ,Basilides of Alexandria ,Marcion of Sinope

Pauls gnostic "thought" is manifest in the manner in which he "obtained" what he taught - he got "kerygma" via revelation - not experience(, plus scripture).

His encouragement of men not to marry borders on asceticism.

His conversion on his way to Damascus (abortion) had gnostic connotations etc

gotta run

Vinnie

I'll second that author!

Vinine