Freethought & Rationalism Archive

notto · 03-07-2002, 05:46 AM

I didn't realize that lists of out of context quotes are considered foundational issues in evolutionary biology.

[TrollHunter]: "Please tune in next week when evolutionists are left defensless as the third law of thermodynamics cuts their puny theory to shreds"

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: notto ]

RufusAtticus · 03-07-2002, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by randman:
Rufus, if you are sincere, I suggest you go to some of the creationist/ID sites and look.
The first scientist that challenged me to examine the evidence on evolution with an open mind was a professor, a zoologist, at NC State. I have just finshed debating such trivialities ad nauseum for weeks on the Carolina off-topic fan web-site, and prefer not to do all of your work for you, but there are biologists trained in evolutionary theory who subsequently dropped the beleif.
You just need to look around.

Well then, I guess you can provide me with names. What do you consider the requirements of "being trained in evolutionary theory." Being a zoologist doesn't automatically qualify someone as an evolutionary biologist. Would you care to try again?

-RvFvS

RufusAtticus · 03-07-2002, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by randman:
Say what you want to, but Rufus and others, you aren't looking very hard if you beleive all the stuff you just posted.

As opposed to someone who doesn't know the first thing about evolutionary biology. Right...

Quote:

And, Rufus, beleive me there are scientists in every related field dealing with evolution who have come out against evolution.

Data please. Provide names with qualifications. I bet I could provide a thousand times more names of highly qualified scientists in the actual field who understand evolution and its existance perfectly well.

-RvFvS

Kosh · 03-07-2002, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Troll Hunter:
Posted by randman in the ZoobaZooga Lounge:
Luvluv, I concur. That board is more of a love-fest for evolutionists
and tidbits of info they share among themselves. I is hard to get
them to get down to foundational issues. I am going to finish
my threads there and move on.

As I suspected from the start. He's nothing more
than Monty Python's "Black Knight". It's just a
flesh wound!

[FADE IN ON A LOCAL STARBUCKS, WHERE A BIBLE
STUDY GROUP IS MEETING. THE GROUP LEANS IN TO
HEAR THE WORDS OF RANDMAN AS HE RECOUNTS HIS
TALES OF BRAVERY TO THE LAND OF INFIDELS]

Randman: Well, it wasn't too hard. I could have
gone to Harvard you know, so those evil evos are
no match for me. They were completely confused
by my approach, and then refused to answer my
questions! I conclusely showed them they don't
know what I'm talking about!

[CUT TO A YOUNG VERSION OF THE CHURCH LADY ]

CL: Randman, can I buy a coffee and walk you to
Church on Sunday?<sigh>

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kosh ]

Amen-Moses · 03-07-2002, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by randman:
By the way, how about this guy? Paul Chien

<a href="http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html</a>

What about him? He translated a book into Chinese. The sum total of articles he has written for crsc is ... 0.

Amen-Moses

Dr Rick · 03-07-2002, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randman:
My HS wanted me to go to Harvard, and in retrospect I should have.

My HS wanted me to co-found Microsoft, discover a cure for cancer, and win the Nobel Peace Prize...in retrospect, I should have.

Quote:

I also finished a non-accredited, but rigorous ministerial training program.

They didn't call it "Hell Week" for nothin', ya' know.

Quote:

As far as college science courses, I took the requirements and no more. I did not attend class...

What a coincidence...neither did "Dr." Hovind. Besides, pesky ole' knowledge and facts would just get in the way of unshakeable, unverifiable and unfalsefiable faith-based beliefs.

Quote:

...but simply read the textbook and showed up for the exam and did fairly well, B range...

Of course, Jack Chick tracts aren't technically considered textbooks.

Quote:

I know that doesn't say much considering the level of intellect of colleges these days.

Not that colleges, institutions or buildings in general are supposed to have intellects.

Quote:

I don't know what else to say. I don't think it requires an a dvanced degree to learn to reason well, and examine an argument.

Don't you suppose it would be helpful, though, to actually learn something about a subject before arguing against it?

Quote:

I once was a theistic evolutionists but once I actually checked into the data for myself, I found that most of what I was taught wasn't true. Recapitulation didn't happen. The fossil record shows stasis and sudden appearance. Basically, it appears to me that the only hard data, the fossils, do not actually show the transitions between species.

The "only hard data"?! Work in gene-mapping projects, molecular biology, zoology, anthropology, and geology have all produced findings that support the theory of evolution. These are not "soft" fields.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]

Mageth · 03-07-2002, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by randman:
My HS wanted me to go to Harvard, and in retrospect I should have.

It's bad enough when someone tries to throw credentials around to show how smart they are, but when they start saying things like "I coulda been a contendah!" I just cringe.

Vorkosigan · 03-07-2002, 01:41 PM

My HS wanted me to go to Harvard.

My HS wanted me to go to Harvard too. Or Penn State. Or Chad. Or the South Pole. Anywhere, just away from them.

Are you actually going to do anything we've recommended or answer any of the questions?

Michael

randman · 03-07-2002, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by randman:
By the way, how about this guy? Paul Chien
<a href="http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html</a>

Kosh, you ignorantly claim no evolutionary biologist has ever supported creationism/ID. I give you a name, then you say, hey, I can give you thousands more. Tell you what buddy. Go ahead and find 10,000 names.
Kosh, if you are really so convinced of evolution, why do you resort to lies to defend it?
Obviously, a great many scientists including biologists embrace ID. Moreover, I think paleontology has more pertinent relevance concerning evolution than biology in terms of proving or disproving it. It is hard for me to beleive you are past about 15 years of age.

Mageth · 03-07-2002, 02:00 PM

Kosh, you ignorantly claim no evolutionary biologist has ever supported creationism/ID.

OK, troll, where did Kosh say this? I couldn't find it.

Kosh, if you are really so convinced of evolution, why do you resort to lies to defend it?

To say someone is lying usually requires evidence to back up such a claim. Where has Kosh lied? And prove that he lied. Otherwise you're just a troll (well, you are anyway, IMO).

Obviously, a great many scientists including biologists embrace ID.

So what? A great many more don't embrace it. Bottom line is, how many people believe or don't believe something has little or no bearing on the truthfulness of the matter. I look at the evidence; ID explains nothing. It's totally unnecessary to posit ID as an explanation for life/species/evolution or anything else, unless one is predisposed to believe in God. It's the belief that created ID, not the other way around.

It is hard for me to beleive you are past about 15 years of age.

I generally associate calling people liars and berating them based on their age as acts of immaturity. You're behaving as if you're 15.

Even if he is 15, that holds no bearing on the weight of his arguments.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

03-07-2002, 05:46 AM	#41
notto Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN US Posts: 133	I didn't realize that lists of out of context quotes are considered foundational issues in evolutionary biology. [TrollHunter]: "Please tune in next week when evolutionists are left defensless as the third law of thermodynamics cuts their puny theory to shreds" [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: notto ]</p>

03-07-2002, 02:00 PM	#50
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Kosh, you ignorantly claim no evolutionary biologist has ever supported creationism/ID. OK, troll, where did Kosh say this? I couldn't find it. Kosh, if you are really so convinced of evolution, why do you resort to lies to defend it? To say someone is lying usually requires evidence to back up such a claim. Where has Kosh lied? And prove that he lied. Otherwise you're just a troll (well, you are anyway, IMO). Obviously, a great many scientists including biologists embrace ID. So what? A great many more don't embrace it. Bottom line is, how many people believe or don't believe something has little or no bearing on the truthfulness of the matter. I look at the evidence; ID explains nothing. It's totally unnecessary to posit ID as an explanation for life/species/evolution or anything else, unless one is predisposed to believe in God. It's the belief that created ID, not the other way around. It is hard for me to beleive you are past about 15 years of age. I generally associate calling people liars and berating them based on their age as acts of immaturity. You're behaving as if you're 15. Even if he is 15, that holds no bearing on the weight of his arguments. [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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03-07-2002, 01:29 PM	#47
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Originally posted by randman: My HS wanted me to go to Harvard, and in retrospect I should have. It's bad enough when someone tries to throw credentials around to show how smart they are, but when they start saying things like "I coulda been a contendah!" I just cringe.

03-07-2002, 01:41 PM	#48
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	My HS wanted me to go to Harvard. My HS wanted me to go to Harvard too. Or Penn State. Or Chad. Or the South Pole. Anywhere, just away from them. Are you actually going to do anything we've recommended or answer any of the questions? Michael

03-07-2002, 01:41 PM	#49
randman Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 333	Originally posted by randman: By the way, how about this guy? Paul Chien <a href="http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.discovery.org/crsc/fellows/PaulChien/index.html</a> Kosh, you ignorantly claim no evolutionary biologist has ever supported creationism/ID. I give you a name, then you say, hey, I can give you thousands more. Tell you what buddy. Go ahead and find 10,000 names. Kosh, if you are really so convinced of evolution, why do you resort to lies to defend it? Obviously, a great many scientists including biologists embrace ID. Moreover, I think paleontology has more pertinent relevance concerning evolution than biology in terms of proving or disproving it. It is hard for me to beleive you are past about 15 years of age.

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