Doctor X

Dey were gonna FIGURATIVELY stone her . . . yeah . . . dat's it . . . FIGURATIVE STONES . . . yeah . . . no contradiction der. . . .

--J.D.

Amos

Well it is a story for sentimentalists which itself is a sin because it is very counteproductive under the Capital Sins. So Catholics are urged to walk away from it and let 'Christians' (tm), do the wailing for the Jews-- which is probably why the movie is made in the first place.

Herod was in charge over the subconscious mind and Pilate over the conscious mind while Jesus claimed to be king *over and above* the conscious mind because he was without sin. However, as the reborn Joseph Jesus bore the identity of Joseph and needed the Jews to crucify this Joseph identity according to Jewish law and Jewish law only (of which Jesus was set free as Jesus the ex-Jew who was therefore "over and above" the law that was needed for the conviction of sin). So the conviction is clear from the sin/no sin dichotomy of the story and the Romans were just eager to finish the job.

Herod and Pilate were enemies and became allies towards the end to make this story possible.

Overgrowngoblin

Unfortunately the rules did not change; they were unfair to begin with. Roman Family Law was based on the principle that the father of the family (pater familias) had complete authority both over the children and his wife. This was defined as paternal power (patria potestas).

The wife is the property of her husband and completely subjected to his disposition. He could punish her in anyway, including killing her, or selling her as a slave (the last punishment was forbidden after 100 BC). When it came to family property the wife herself does not own anything.

Of course Roman Law changes many times throughout it long history. If you would like to learn more about women’s rights in Rome I would suggest Woman in Roman Law and Society by J.F. Gardner. However, I doubt any of this will be reflected in the movie The Passion and I’m sorry for my part in highjacking this thread.

So is the movie going to have subtitles or not?

Dr Rick

Your telling me, bro; I know just where you're coming from. I'm not a Disney child or anything. I was raised with no VCR.

I saw clips of "Snow White" and I have to say it really pissed me off that vanity killed a human being. No, it does not inspire me or anything, it convinces me that apples are the most dangerous fruit. I had no idea that the Queen died in such a barbaric manner and this was all from A MIRROR!

Anyone else see the clips? It looked very graphic, bloody and deep.

I am by no means an expert on this, but from what I understand, all of the 7 short guys that ran the mines (after she came back to life upon Prince Charming's kiss) never got laid; one even just kept sneezing

Doctor X

Dr. Rick:

SEE?!! I told you: "Do NOT drink the bong water!"

Instructs Seed to bring "Mr. Restraints" should his collegue begin singing "Whistle While you Work," . . .

--J.D.

Biff the unclean

Except we aren't talking about Roman family law. We know that because the woman is being stoned. That and she is being stoned by civilians in the street. By Jews not Romans, following Jewish religous law not Roman civil, executing a person according to Jewish custom not Roman. And being dissuaded from doing so by a Rabbi not a Centurion.

Here's the Jewish law that is being enforced in the story
Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Nope the NT is quite clear on the subject. Jews were able to enforce their own laws upon their own people, including capital offences. That was Standard Operating Procedure in the conquered nations of the Roman Empire.
They could not however enforce them upon Roman Citizens. You'll notice that Saint Paul claims this very privilege.
So either the bible is wrong about the Jewish authorities being unable to execute Jesus themselves (just like they did to John the Baptist just a few chapters before) or Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah he was instead a citizen of Rome

Overgrowngoblin

Client kings’ right to inflict capital punishment was often restricted. Had Jesus been an adulterer the local client king (Herod Antipas -- a client king of lower rank called a "tetrarch”) could have put him to death. But he wasn’t claiming he was an adulterer, he was claiming he was the king of the Jews. This is a much bigger offence and falls under Roman Law.

The Jews were a conquered people that were allowed to govern themselves up to a point. High treason against the state (MA´JESTAS) was one of those points. The Laws of the Twelve Tables punished with death a person who stirred up an enemy against Rome or surrendered a Roman citizen to an enemy.

SignOfTheCross

This is stupid. You feel pity for a man who created the most successful religion, yet despise religion.

Beautiful.

Peace,
SOTC

Doctor X

Not "stupid" at all.

One can feel empathy which may lead him to despise the creation.

Quite a rational response.

--J.D.

brighid

My memory might be very fuzzy on this but I do not recall that Jesus EVER claimed to be "the King of the Jews." I thought (and again I could be mistaken) that this was a title given to him during sentencing.

Okay, to refresh my memory I went and reread John 18 and Jesus never admits to be the King of the Jews, but rather that his kingdom if of "another world" and that he was born to be the king of this world.

What is puzzling is what the Jews say to Pilate : The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: Jhn 18:31. Is this to mean that under Roman law they cannot put a man to death, or they simply can't put a man to death for being a "malefactor" (Jhn 18:30)?

It also puzzles me that if (according to Jesus' claims) he was "born to this end" (as a sacrifice) and this is a pre-destined plan that could not be abrigated by mortal men (and perhaps God hardened the hearts of the Jew like he did Pharoah) what guilt would the Jews or even the Romans have in bringing about this prophecied and necessary end? I just don't get how the hatred of the Jew is justified when they are no more a servant doing the bidding of their God.

Brighid