HelenM

If you fall short will you be a true orthodox atheist instead?

I would say I'm not exactly a Calvinist - that my theology isn't that tightly defined - but then that would probably lead to questions I'm not willing to answer.

So I won't

I have a fairly good understanding of Calvinist theology and some other varieties of Christian theology, at any rate

love
Helen

ManM

Stephen T-B,
8. Religion provides a worldview and moral ideal that you find to be enlightening.

ManM

BTW, "ortho" means 'right' or 'straight', while "doxy" is 'belief' or 'thinking'. That must mean I'm right by default.

Gurdur

Wrong. The morpheme "doxy" here means more or less what you think it means; but the seperate word "doxy" actually means "good-time girl", "mistress", "wench" and similar.

The Greek Orthodox Church has of course always believed it was right by default; a complete nonsensical stance, as the still-well-existing Armenian Apostolic Church predates the Greek Orthodox Church by many years in offical and credibly-recorded foundation.
The only downside is you have to be Armenian, or at least be able to speak a little Armenian, to be a member; but at least you don't have to think Greece is the centre of the universe.

BTW, if I fall short of living up to being a "True Unorthodox Atheist", I guess it means I just end up being me.
There are worse fates.

Stephen T-B

ManM wrote:"Religion provides a worldview and moral ideal..."
No, ManM, religion does not provide a moral ideal.
Morality is do with how we behave to one another and how we behave in society.
Religion is concerned with the relationship between human beings and the gods they worship.
When religious teaching encompasses morality, such as the Ten Commandments, it does so because religious and political leadership is being combined in a single hierarchy. Thus Moses was not only a conduit between God and the Jews, but he was also the Jews’ political leader and as such had an interest in establishing rules of conduct between members of that community so as to preserve social stability and cohesion and individual security, as well as establishing the more esoteric requirements of their religion.
Jesus,”the King of the Jews” was also a political leader, which is why the Romans crucified him and why much of his teaching also had a moral element.
The Jewish priesthood curtailed its political role or it would not have been tolerated by the Romans Morality was therefore outside its jurisdiction.
Religion is without compassion or morality because neither comes into the relationship between humans and their gods. So when abortion and euthanasia are objected to on religious grounds it is because they contravene a religious doctrine, in this case the doctrine of the sanctity of life which nevertheless has not prevented Christians from taking life, and sometimes in hideously cruel ways in the belief that they were performing a religious duty.

ManM

Stephen T-B,
Humankind was created in the image of the triune God. Therefore our proper interpersonal behavior (morality) is identical to the relationship between the figures of the trinity. The three persons of the trinity are one through the communion of love, and so the moral relation between humans is a communion of love. How is this not a moral ideal provided by religion?

windsofchange

Hi again, all - -
Okay, okay, I know I said I was takin' my ball and goin' home, but checked in this morning and was so heartened by the messages of support that I wanted to say "thanks".

Also, to those who don't think I was a "True Atheist", uh, yes I was! I didn't believe in God and I lived my life as though there were no God, which I believe would qualify me as an Atheist of some kind. Granted, I never got my official "Today You Are An Atheist" certificate from headquarters, but I *did* do the basic course work! (Though I'll probably wind up with a failing grade now ... dammit! )

Love,
Theist Gal :-)

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: A Theist Gal ]</p>

HelenM

I'm glad you have a positive attitude about 'being you'!

love
Helen

Brian63

A while back, I remember reading through a thread on this board about census figures of the number of self-described atheists in the U.S. The numbers were surprisingly high, and much of the discussion centered around that.

One poster (I don't remember whom though) mentioned that a lot of people describe themselves as atheists and believe that they are, then go on to talk about how they believe in God.

Obviously, not all people who consider themselves atheists even know what the term means. I'm not at all suggesting that AtheistGal--&gt;TheistGal is one of those people. Surely though, you wouldn't consider a person like that (who believes in God) to be an atheist, right?

If TheistGal says that she really did not believe in God (as she does), then I'd consider her an atheist (at the time she was). Distinguishing between "atheist" and "True Atheist" is meaningless, and I don't think anyone here was even trying to do that.

Again though, this is really making a mountain out of a molehill. If she believes in God, that's great. More power to her and all that.

Brian

Mad Kally

I'm just here to see Gurdurs really big words. I know I'm impressed.