Eudaimonist

And you would give those same humans absolute political power over others.

Unlike you, who have endured propaganda from totalitarian thinkers.

If you want to claim credit for being an independent thinker, at least be willing to grant other people the same credit.

Totalitarianist

A legacy, is that all? The entire social order of the planet should be turned on it's head for the sake of your legacy?

Yes, but not limited to it--in the name of science as well!--the highest pinnacle of human knowledge!

No they aren't, don't forget about the massive police force you envisioned to keep the people under control. Remember your plan to clone "scary, deep voiced black men" for your secret police?

I have abandoned that idea on account of some animal's assertion that the idea was inspired by a video game.

Hehe. Seriously though, why not replace all those lazy, emotional waterballoons with machines or insects? Efficiency is all that matters, right?

Why not?

Because it is scientifically unfeasible until proven otherwise. And I like the idea of having real, conscious minds--human minds--admire me.

What good are these things to the rest of your society? Your people would be slaves, do they care about your latest marvel when they have nothing to gain from it and probably won't even find out about it?

They would not be slaves. I have devised a slaveless system--unlike capitalism.

You would just replace one religion with another, your ideology demands human subservience to a non-human thing which is "greater than ourselves".
Whether the object of worship is Sky-Santa's dogma or the state's dogma is irrelevant, there aren't all that many differences.

Your plan to "preach Darwinism" is an example of what I'm talking about here.

I disagree with your opinion.

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian_Vir ]</p>

Bible Humper

ROFLMAO. The political theories you assert are dependant on their being perceived to be original conceptions? Are your posts designed with the intent to somehow convince us that you are some sort of genius? Sorry, son, but your political ramblings have only served to remind us that you are young and not yet half as wise as you think you are.

If you feel that your ideas are no longer valid if they were invented for a video game first, let me remind you once again that the whole concept of your society looks like it was practically cut and pasted from the fan-fiction that was written for Alpha Centauri.

Perhaps you should abandon this entire fantasy instead of just one minor detail.

Well, goose-step on out to your backyard and you'll be able to find a colony of ants to lord it over.

My point is that since your society is supposedly self-justifying, and greater than the citizens that constitute it, there is no real reason that the people who constitute it should even be conscious beings.

If the value of individual human beings is only what they contribute to efficiency, why bother with humans at all?

You silly worship of "Darwinism" doesn't cut it, the way that your society would stifle freethought would be a curse to science, not a boon. Become king of the ant hill, and leave science to it's own resources. This way you can have your cake and eat it too.

It's Saturday night, why aren't you out with your friends chasing girls? You seem to display a deep need for acceptance and love, but you have to get up out of your computer chair and make it happen yourself!

Seriously, Trebaxian, you can be admired without resorting to force, why don't you reach out to others of your age and be more social?

I know that my posts to you are usually antagonistic, but I really mean what I said above.

The more power you give to the state, the less power is left for the citizens. You can claim to be a benign master, but the status of people in your utopia is clear.

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]</p>

Totalitarianist

ROFLMAO. The political theories you assert are dependant on their being perceived to be original conceptions?

-You do not know what they are. You are only acquainted with my rather vague, inadequate discription.

Sorry, son, but your political ramblings have only served to remind us that you are young and not yet half as wise as you think you are.

-Do not say such things. I am making a list.

If you feel that your ideas are no longer valid if they were invented for a video game first, let me remind you once again that the whole concept of your society looks like it was practically cut and pasted from the fan-fiction that was written for Alpha Centauri.

-My God! You speak of your stupid unheard-of video game, of which I am completely unacquainted with again! Truths can be twisted to suit whatever you fancy, my enemy.

Perhaps you should abandon this entire fantasy instead of just one minor detail.

-It is not fantasy. It is not science fiction. My theories can be applied to anything--an island, the moon--I just use a space colony for argument's sake.

My point is that since your society is supposedly self-justifying, and greater than the citizens that constitute it, there is no real reason that the people who constitute it should even be conscious beings.

-I do not care. The citizens, to me, are only a means of establishing my dream.

If the value of individual human beings is only what they contribute to efficiency, why bother with humans at all?

-You obviously do not know what I am concerned with.

You silly worship of "Darwinism" doesn't cut it, the way that your society would stifle freethought would be a curse to science, not a boon. Become king of the ant hill, and leave science to it's own resources. This way you can have your cake and eat it too.

-It do not worship Darwinism.

-I support advancements in science.

Totalitarianist

Once again, you have derailed this into another "me" thread. Congratulations.

Bible Humper

Well, out of the concepts you have shared with us, you have already abandoned one simply because there is suspicion that you got the idea from a computer game. If it was a sound idea, who cares where it came from?

I realise that you look foolish for adopting the philosophy of a video game character, but the idea is good or bad regardless of where you got it from.

What are you going to do, tell on me?

You have about as much chance of realising your adolescent fantasies of world domination as I have of becoming the Messiah.

Neat try, but we can all see how you avoided answering my embarrassing question.

Are you so insecure that you'll dump aspects of your philosophy just because it is suspected that you stole your philosophy from a video game character?

Am I supposed to be afraid now that you have declared me an enemy?

LOL, in the same statement that you declare that your silliness is not science fiction you declare that it is equally applicable to the moon, the ocean floor, or a space station!!

What a maroon!

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent a hooker?

You're fourteen years old, I know exactly what you're concerned with!

You envision all those girls in your class that laugh at you crawling to your fortress on their knees begging to be your concubines. You imagine your peenie finally getting wet, so wet that you will never need your pillow in the same way again!

You want to preach it in churches....

Then stop advocating the strangulation of freethought by the rope of indoctrination.

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]</p>

lcb

Future plans for all the churches-interesting. The axis powers in WWII actually printed up their own currency which depicted the United States(its in the history books, and you can still buy this occupation currency from numismatists),their future plan was to use this currency in the occupation of the U.S. They printed up millions of these notes.

Samhain

Vir:

How so? Let people be free to rule their own lives, imposing laws and creating restrictions is only a characterization of people who wish to dominate others through means of power and corruption. Further, I find it quite ironic that you of all people would say that considering your appeal to facist states.

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."

-Tacitus

Ah, here comes the straw-man. Remember what purposes I said governments should hold? To protect and serve its citizens, nothing more, nothing less.

Oh really, Vir? Perhaps you shouldn't universalize the human population with your own self-perceptions. Perhaps you'd like to provide some evidence before making absurd assertions? Oh, I'd forgotten that you like to steer away from that pesky thing called evidence, it only serves to keep you down, right? So where's some objective proofs of this?

I'm not talking about anarchy, Vir, I'm talking about a goverment that stays out of peoples personal lives except for the purposes of protecting (from foreign and domestic threats) and serving its citizens (and serving can be taking quite broadly). I'm not talking about chaos. I am quite aware of the fact that anarchy is just another form of ideological musing out of touch with reality, in fact, I'd assert that there is no such thing as anarchy, but that it is just a ridiculous concept proposed for purposes of mental masturbation.

Ah, yes, and for what reasons, Vir, you do know that totalitarianism breeds rebellion and dissent, right?

I have no illusions about any government, not even my own, Vir, you however, seem to be quite willing to follow other types of propaghanda, if in your own demented and twisted way.

No emotions here, Vir, except perhaps amusement, especially if you think me patriotic toward my own country (HA!).

I have yet to find a form of government which is ideal for human existence in a realistic form. It is my understanding, however, that communism and socialism are stringent "rulers" of the economy and property and rights. The ruling is for the purposes of creating a classless society, and the government will rule to see that that is carried out, what freedom from rule is that?

Yes, Vir, whatever you say.

Where did this come from? Were you trying to make a point? Ah, yes, a red herring.

Are you dense? Anyone with half a brain knows that I am not talking about anarchy. Remember, anarchy means no government, or the absence of. I've specifically pointed out that I am talking about government.

Ah, thus ends the straw man.

Mr.Sunshine

Hee,Hee,Hee.....Bible Humper.....I like that name!.....Being raised Pentecostal,the Bible certainly Humped me........But now I'm older and wiser and mad as hell!!!!!!!

Bible Humper