FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB General Discussion Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 02:40 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-03-2003, 06:35 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Fatal Shore
Posts: 900
Default

Remember Afghanistan
Jane Bovary is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 06:53 AM   #22
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North America
Posts: 1,603
Default

Partial previous post:
Quote:
Sure. See, for example, the demands the US made of Afghanistan before bombing the shit out if it and then abdicating responsibility for rebuilding post 9-11.[...]
Uh, which demands were unreasonable? The surrender of bin Laden and assorted al Qaeda officials? What other demand would anyone make given that all signs pointed to al Qaeda as the source of the terrorist attacks? Were there some other demands? If so, what were they?

Cheers!
leonarde is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 07:10 AM   #23
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 183
Default

Given that the US has decided to attack Iraq it makes good sense to weaken Iraq beforehand.
RoddyM is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 07:56 AM   #24
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Portsmouth, England
Posts: 4,652
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by leonarde
Uh, which demands were unreasonable? The surrender of bin Laden and assorted al Qaeda officials?
It is unreasonable to expect them to hand people over without:

1) Any evidence of their involvement.
2) A guarantee that they will be tried under international law rather than some kangaroo court.

So far the 9/11 attacks have been traced to 19 Saudi's, 2 UAE's, 1 Kuwaiti, 3 alleged Yemeni's (who were cremated in the desert without a trial) and a possible connection money wise to the Saudi royal family.

What a great indictment of the Afghan angle!

Amen-Moses
Amen-Moses is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 09:22 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: here
Posts: 738
Default

It's not what Saddam's declared he has that's the issue, or what the UN inspectors have discovered. But what is yet unaccounted for. Do any of you trust Saddam so much to leave the discrepencies to clerical error?

Also let's take a look at how the Americans and the Taliban treated Afghanistan, shall we? 200,000-500,000 deaths in less than a decade under the Taliban takeover of that country. In 2 months we kill 3,000 civilians but few after that.

Let's just say 4K vs 400K roughly, would be two orders of magnitute difference between how we treated that country, and how the previous regime did.

Can any of you here argue that the USA's influence over Afghanistan is worse than the influence of the Taliban?

How about the million Afghans killed by the USSR in 8 years?
Ultron is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 10:27 AM   #26
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Well fortified mountain bunker
Posts: 3,567
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Pomp
See, for example, the demands the US made of Afghanistan before bombing the shit out if it and then abdicating responsibility for rebuilding post 9-11.
Huh?
Mr. Superbad is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 12:34 PM   #27
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Ultron
It's not what Saddam's declared he has that's the issue, or what the UN inspectors have discovered. But what is yet unaccounted for. Do any of you trust Saddam so much to leave the discrepencies to clerical error?

Also let's take a look at how the Americans and the Taliban treated Afghanistan, shall we? 200,000-500,000 deaths in less than a decade under the Taliban takeover of that country. In 2 months we kill 3,000 civilians but few after that.

Let's just say 4K vs 400K roughly, would be two orders of magnitute difference between how we treated that country, and how the previous regime did.

Can any of you here argue that the USA's influence over Afghanistan is worse than the influence of the Taliban?

How about the million Afghans killed by the USSR in 8 years?
You miss the point. The Taliban and Russia are going to ignore the protests. Thus people won't protest no matter what the death toll.

However, protests have some effect on the US. Therefore protesting *MIGHT* prevent the US from killing someone. That's a good thing--even if it means somebody else kills 100 instead. We didn't do it, that's all that matters.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 02:08 PM   #28
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,264
Default

Hussein should do the only thing he can effectively do to hurt Bush and the United States. His representatives should go to the UN and tell them he will step down as the IRAQI leader and allow an international peacekeeping force to assist IRAQ in rebuilding the government. The only stipulations are that the UN sanctions be lifted, he not be prosecuted, and the peacekeeping force come from Russia, Germany, and France.

Bush would be stuck with several hundred thousand troops in the region and nobody to fight. Saddam escapes with his life and Bush get stuck on the outside after going through all that effort.

Then the focus would likely shift back to the economy.
ImGod is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 02:53 PM   #29
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ImGod
Hussein should do the only thing he can effectively do to hurt Bush and the United States. His representatives should go to the UN and tell them he will step down as the IRAQI leader and allow an international peacekeeping force to assist IRAQ in rebuilding the government. The only stipulations are that the UN sanctions be lifted, he not be prosecuted, and the peacekeeping force come from Russia, Germany, and France.

Bush would be stuck with several hundred thousand troops in the region and nobody to fight. Saddam escapes with his life and Bush get stuck on the outside after going through all that effort.

Then the focus would likely shift back to the economy.
The only one who doesn't benefit from that strategy is Saddam.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 03-04-2003, 02:57 PM   #30
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,264
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
The only one who doesn't benefit from that strategy is Saddam.
I think escaping with your life (most likely with a large amount of money) while effectively neutering Bush and the US foreign policy would be a benefit. Especially when compared to dying.
ImGod is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:22 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.