BadBadBad

You go hug a budda. I'll go hug my daughter, and we'll come back and compare notes.

Aradia

The purpose of science is to explain the natural world. The purpose of religion is twofold: to explain that which we cannot otherwise explain, and to give hope and meaning to our lives.

Aradia

I don't need to. I'm happy without the Buddha.

So yeah, let's compare notes. I can be happy unconditionally. You?

SecularFuture

Why smoke at all when you could drink a glass of water?

Aradia

Why eat meat when you can eat veggies?
Why eat veggies when you can eat meat?
Why drive a sports car when you can drive an econobox?
Why drive an econobox when you can drive a sports car?

Does this need a new thread?

SecularFuture

Smoking is bad for your health, PERIOD.

Aradia

No kidding. Let's get back on-topic.

BadBadBad

I like your attitude, but I don't believe you. It's a nice ideal, but I think it is unacheivable. However close you can come to that ideal, good for you, but I think you can acheive the same thing without religion. Can you be happy while you are imprisoned, starved, and tortured? A lot of people have sought relief for that through religion, but I'm not sure I'd believe them if they said that they had.

If my girls hadn't been born, I'd still be content. If I hadn't been married or had kids. I'd be content and happy, and my life would have meaning. Looking back at life before all that, I'm happier. My life is more meaningful. How can religion change that?

If something happens to my family, I have fear. I have grief. I have sadness. I'm not happy. I'm defined by my humanity. Is that a bad thing? How can religion change that?

Are we different?

Aradia

You don't have to believe me. People haven't believed me when I've said that I love all people unconditionally. Why should this be any different?

Sure, one could achieve the same thing without religion. So what? Why is it any better to achieve it without religion?

Could I be happy while I was imprisoned, starved, and tortured? Yes. Would I be? I don't know. It would take great effort, and I don't have any direct experience.

Looking back on my life, I'm no happier than I was before I met my girlfriend. Sure, I have more fun, but that's not the same thing. I am, however, considerably happier than I was before I became a practicing buddhist. Religion is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not about just changing one's life, it's about helping to change what one wants to change. If there is nothing in your life that you feel needs to be changed, more power to you. But my aunt isn't perfect, and her tool of choice to help her is christianity. I'm not perfect, either, and my tool of choice is buddhism. We aren't simply changing our lives for the sake of change. We're changing our lives because we want to change.

No, it's not a bad thing. Me, I don't like feeling sad. So I've chosen to change that. I don't like feeling grief, or unhappiness, or frustration, or anger. So I've chosen to change that. I've chosen to take control of my emotions instead of letting them control me. Why is that such a bad thing? And if religion can be used to help someone change, why is *that* a bad thing?

Yes, we are different. I see religion as being valid. I respect other people's beliefs.

BadBadBad

So now you're admitting that your happiness is conditional. Which is it? Conditional and potentially affected by adverse conditions such as death and suffering, or non-conditional and unchanging regardless of the circumstances?

That seems a fine play on words. I don't see how more fun does not correllate with more happiness.

I never said your personal beliefs were a bad thing. Fantasy yes. Bad no. As to your religion giving you freedom from normal emotions, you've admitted that it's an ideal not an unconditional fact. No fear, no sadness, no anger, no frustration, no grief. You are human right? Like I said, religion doesn't change reality.