Wyrdsmyth

Reading a thread like this makes me hungry for a fresh loaf of Italian white bread... Mmmm, think of it, just out of the oven, still warm and gooey, steaming. Cut it in thick slices... no! Just rip hunks of it off, and eat it with a bottle of good Bordeaux!

The Other Michael

Hi Godot,

Why don't you post your thoughts on BFL in the exercise thread? There are several of us here who've done BFL, and I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say, as I found I had to tweak things a bit.

Wyrdsmyth, you need some really nice olive oil to dip the bread into - with the bread being warm the air should soon be filled with the fragrance of the oil.

cheers,
Michael

Godot

Will do.

You also need to mix in a little balsamic vinegar with the olive oil to give in a nice pungent taste.

Free Thinkr

You're right where you want to be, IMHO. That, by the way, is neither low carb or low fat. Oh, and good job being cheap, common sense works just as well as these crappy fad diets, and is free. Honestly, it should be painfully obvious by adulthood which foods do and do not make you fat, no "experts" needed.

Not to mention going out of their way to avoid foods for no reason!

Indeed. If you cook something, its easy to get a good feel for how fatening it is or isn't, and harder to overeat.

Pain Paien

Nonsense! It's unsalted butter for me without question. Although, I suppose I wouldn't say no to olive oil, but butter has that...less-healthy goodness to it.

Anyhow, I must say that I don't know what I'd do if I had to go without bread. Any diet that bans bread isn't a miracle diet, it's more of an evil scheme. I don't think the Atkins diet is any easier to commit to than any other fad diet, it just has better press at the moment. Oh, that reminds me, what was that diet in the 70s that called for eating all that grapefruit? That supposedly worked for lots of people, too.

JGL53

I agree - butter is best on bread. But I suppose it's a matter of taste, yuh?

Extra virgin olive oil and red vinegar make a great salad dressing -on a baby greens/spinach salad, with add-ons like walnuts, sunflower seeds, shredded Romano, crumbled Feta, marinated lentils, etc.

The Atkins diet is not a fad. It ain't going away, brother. And it's not just the recent good press - it perservered and grew even with horrribly bad press for more than twenty-five years.

Atkins does not 'ban bread'. Certainly, someone trying to burn off a huge amount of body fat accumulated over decades would not eat bread during the induction phase, or even the pre-maintenance phase, but would be able to incorporate bread into a long-term maintenance diet, especially if one had developed an exercise program. I, myself, eat a couple of slices of sour dough, pumpernickel, french, or similar type of decent bread about every other day.

In any case (and this should blow Godot's mind) I may be persuaded to eat even a higher per cent carb diet in the near future. I'm about two-thirds through a book written by neurophysiologist Will Clower entitled "The Fat Fallacy". He spent two years living in Paris and eating the French way. His book has really opened my eyes regarding the 'why' of the so-called 'French anomoly'.

To wit: it seems that, compared to U.S. citizens, the French are longer lived, have one third as many heart attacks and stroke, and yet smoke more, don't exercise as much, and eat a forty percent fat diet (goose fat, butter, cream, etc). They also don't eat low carb (all those bagettes with butter).

Dr. Clower advances just a couple or three simple theories as to why and how this amazing reality could be. Any guesses - before I post a synopsis of his theories? (Yes, the wine helps, but that's not one of the more important reasons.)

Pain Paien

I'm aware that it has grown through bad repute, but just because it's had bad press in the past doesn't exclude it from being a fad now. It also remains to be seen whether or not it will continue. It may very well stick around, but I suspect this has been said in the past about other diets and proved untrue.

I don't deny that the the Atkins diet can get results. I do, however, believe that the diet is no easier to commit to than any other such deprivation diet. Certainly for me, at least, it would be much more difficult to stick to than most other diets. I think some people are just desperate to find a magical trick that makes weight loss effortless. They're not going to find it, and the Atkins diet certainly doesn't fit the bill. People just have to realize that the best way to lose weight is moderation and exercize. I simply don't believe that a person who eats 'all the meat they want' and avoids carbohydrates will be healthy. If it gets results for you, and you're happy with it, then all the better for you, but I don't believe it's a very practical weight-loss plan for most people.

Godot

Sorry, you didn't blow my mind, but thanks for trying!
I haven't read the book (so I don't know which theories Clower is advocating), but there are a couple of reasons why the Mediterranean Diet is more beneficial (as compared to a North American standard crap diet).
1. better lipid profile in the foods that are consumed
2. greater quantity of vegetables being consumed
3. smaller meals consumed more frequently
4. less overeating/gorging of foods
(that's about all I can think of off the top of my head)

JGL53: does Clower distinguish between northern and southern French cuisine? There is a marked difference between the two and it would be interesting to see if he took this into acount in his book.

JGL53

Pain Paien, you seem to think that the late Dr. Atkins preached "NO more potatoes, NO more bread, NO more fruit, NO more pasta, for the REST OF YOUR LIVES, MOTHERFUCKERS".

Uh, wrong, my friend. What you are criticizing as the Atkins diet is actually the Atkins induction diet. However, some very fat people do stay on this very low carb plan for up to six months. It is a safe and effective way to burn off a lot of body fat in a relative short period of time (in relation to the time the person took to pack it on).

Once a normal weight range is reached, there are a LOT of carbohydrate foods one can eat, in moderation, and still be on the 'Atkins Diet", i.e., the Atkins maintenance diet. As previously mentioned, the more one gets into exercise, the more one can 'endulge' in favorite carbohydrate rich foods.


As mentioned, I'm only two-thirds through the book, but no, not yet. He does discuss the Latin, the Mediterranean, and the vegetarian food pyramids, in comparison to the U.S. government's. He criticizes the latter for not distinguishing bad from good fats, recommending too much red meat, and not mentioning proper water intake or the benefits of wine.

I'm guessing the diet he recommends probably breaks down something like 40-42 fat, 15-20 protein, and 45-38 carbohydrate.

BTW, I left out of my last post one of my main points - the French have had an historical obesity rate of about eight per cent. Americans (U.S.) went from twelve per cent to something like - what, sixty per cent now? - in the last thirty years. During this period the average fat per cent of diet went down from about 40 to about 34, and sugar consumption went through the fucking roof.

Dr. Clower's take on the French is that their success, in comparison to Americans, is really very simple, and consist mainly of only two differences:

1. The French don't eat 'fake' food (e.g., TV dinners, margarine, cheetoes, all the incredible selection we have of low-fat or no-fat crap, crap loaded with corn syrup, sugar, hydrogentated soybean oil, dyes, preservatives, meat loaded with hormones and antibiotics, etc., etc.). The French eat fabulous food, and it's all 'real'. They emphasize quality, not quantity. They're into fresh food, freshly prepared - not food 'products' you warm up in a microwave.

2. Americans are on the run, bolt their food like they are in a hurry to catch a train, toss down huge chucks of food, even putting more in their mouths before they even swallowed what they're chewing, are served huge portions when eating out (and are rushed by restaurants to eat fast and get the fuck out and make room for the next customer), eat all the huge amount they're served because they fucking paid for it.

They get conditioned to eating these huge amounts and eating this fast, and eat like this at home like every day is Thanksgiving. Americans believe that if a food is good, you should WANT to eat it fast, and eat a fuckload of it - it's like they're thinking "Hey, this is good. Let's eat five pounds in five minutes!"

The French eat very slowly and take small bites. This is their very different take on how to enjoy good food. They put LESS on their plates than they might intend to eat, and take small second helping as needed. They may even eat on smaller plates, so that a smaller amount of food is taken, and it's still a full plate of food.

They eat little for breakfast, but take long, rather elaborate lunches and dinners, in comparison to Americans, and eat several courses. The total calories, though, is not more than they need because of the slow rate they are eating - the brain gets the message 'This is enough'.

But with many an American, for example, 1,500 calories is eaten in ten minutes. The message then gets to the brain ten minutes after the 'feed bag' is removed. Too late. Time to punch another hole in the belt.

Dr. Clower seems to think this is all there is to it. Makes sense to me, as there HAS to be some cultural difference between America and France to explain it. Uh, what else COULD it be?

Pain Paien

I never implied anything of the sort, as it's completely irrelevant to my point. Even if only the initial portion of the dieting plan involves an extremely low-carb diet, it still constitutes a drastic change in diet for the vast majority of Americans (the fact that it might change later doesn't make the transition any easier, which, of course, is my point). What's more, it's almost certain that even after the induction phase a person on the Atkins diet still eats way less bread, pasta, etc. than the average American is used to. Considering the alimentary position cereals, pasta, bread, and potatoes hold in the U.S., it's safe to say that most of the food people are eating comes in the form of carbohydrates. This means that (as I've been trying to get across) the Atkins diet would represent a very difficult change of diet for the majority of people, making it no easier to adhere to than most other diets. I don't deny that it could be successful for some, and that they might enjoy it. It is my position, however, that it is not an easy fix, and that it isn't better than simple moderation and exercize.